Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Paul Farquhar]

And they vacation. They like to climb mountains and hike in remote areas. They have money man. They like to use it to do unusual things so that they can brag about it. I've worked in the law field for 13 years and have heard some interesting stories.

Vacation!?

REALLY!!?

In a pseudo-medieval world full of monsters!!!?

The history of vacations really dates back to the Grand Tour - an occupation of the VERY VERY rich in the 17th century. I.e. not Lawyers. People who where so rich that they don't have a job at all. Hiking holidays date from the Romantic movement of the early 19th century. Holidays for proles, late 19th. Monsters well and truly extinct.

Okay, but I'm not talking about the Mafia. I'm talking about wizards which we know from official products, have wives and children.

Don is a title given to academic fellows at a university. Who where traditionally celibate up until fairly recently.

As for wives and children, atrophysicists have them too. And most of them aren't astrophysicists. Anyone can, potentially, learn astrophysics. It doesn't require any superpowers. But it takes many many years of dedicated study. The world is not flooded with astrophysicists.

 

[Maxperson]

Vacation!?

REALLY!!?

In a pseudo-medieval world full of monsters!!!?

Well, no. I've heard a lot of interesting stories from the attorneys I have worked with, but vacationing in a pseudo-medieval world full of monsters was not one of them.

Going through remote villages, though, I have heard.

The history of vacations really dates back to the Grand Tour - an occupation of the VERY VERY rich in the 17th century. I.e. not Lawyers. People who where so rich that they don't have a job at all. Hiking holidays date from the Romantic movement of the early 19th century. Holidays for proles, late 19th. Monsters well and truly extinct.

How many of those were wizards looking for monsters to kill for ingredients, ancient tombs to rob for secrets and magic items, etc.? You tend to find those things at the outskirts or beyond civilization, and you hit up the last villages for supplies and information before you do so.

Don is a title given to academic fellows at a university. Who where traditionally celibate up until fairly recently.

Still doesn't apply to wizards who we know from official products take wives and have children.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm sorry you feel that way. To me, though, it's a bit frustrating as well. If you're discussing qualities that psionics must have, or that you feel it has, that's a design discussion. Otherwise, if it has nothing to do with design, then you cannot expect those things to be part of the design. At which point, what's the point?

If, on the other hand, you just want to say your piece and not discuss it further, that's cool. Consider it heard.

EDIT: sorry, it's been a scattered day, and I appear to have repeated myself from last post. Sorry, didn't mean to harp on it. It's cool if you just want to share your thinking but not discuss it.

I'm okay with discussing my point about magic and psionics, but I'm not trying to have the design discussion that you are apparently zeroed in on to the exclusion of all else. Sometimes people want to talk about things related to psionics other than design and not everything psionics related is about design. Normally you are far better at picking up the fine point, but here you just lost it entirely.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Sure. Why go through the effort when you can pay others to do it. If there weren't schools, they'd have done it themselves.

I think that’s a huge leap. But YMMV.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I gotta admit, I am now picturing an adventure where some super-rich patron hires the adventurers to find his missing heir, who went on “vacation”.

 

[Maxperson]

I gotta admit, I am now picturing an adventure where some super-rich patron hires the adventurers to find his missing heir, who went on “vacation”.

Sounds like a grand start to an adventure to me!

 

[Chaosmancer]

Wizards need to harvest monsters for ingredients, spells, get fabled magic items and such. They're literally the ones that are most likely to go out into the boonies looking for stuff.

In the entire Player's Handbook, only the Guards and Wards spell mentions a monster part (Umber Hulk Blood) and since it doesn't have a cost associated with it, you can replace it with an arcane focus.

So, no, wizards don't need to harvest monsters at all, unless there is a plethora of such spells in Xanathars... eh, sure, I'll look. Aganazzer's Scorcher requires a red dragon scale (replaceable), Shadow of Moil requires an undead eyeball, but the wizard can make that themselves and order their undead to rip out their own eye instead of adventuring for it.

So, three spells total, only two of which would require adventuring. I'd say that pretty thoroughly debunks that.

And, magic items could be a thing. If they don't feel like making them themselves, but since they are rich and powerful, why not send a party of adventurers to do it for them?

Wizardry is not law. It's far more powerful and useful.

I'd say you are wrong on that part. You of all people should know that the law can be used viciously to destroy people.

Off the top of my head, four of the attorneys that I have worked with have been the sons of other attorneys all four of those worked with their fathers. One of those also had an uncle who was an attorney in the firm. Those are just the ones I know about. Families going into law happens a whole lot. Why? because it's lucrative and gives power. Much like wizardry, only wizardry gives more.

Yep, families go into law, but how many of them were taught by family?

You say wizardry can't be taught because they'd teach their kids if it could, but you are missing entire slews of reasons. Some people are just bad teachers, sometimes kids aren't interested in the family job, generally they send them to be taught by someone else.

And, you are just assuming that wizards don't teach their kids in the first place, which they could very well do, I mean, if you are born with magic, it is going to run in the family anyways.

Sure. Why go through the effort when you can pay others to do it. If there weren't schools, they'd have done it themselves.

Translate that to D&D and wizards will teach their kids unless there are wizard colleges to do it for them. Either way the D&D world would be flooded with wizards and it isn't.

You realize families are small right?

Why doesn't everyone know Gramma's secret recipe for pie, been passed down through the family for a hundred years.

Might be because while the family knows it, not everyone is in the family.

 

[Maxperson]

And, magic items could be a thing. If they don't feel like making them themselves, but since they are rich and powerful, why not send a party of adventurers to do it for them?

Lack of trust. Being evil. Adventurers are weaker than they need. No adventurers around. Type A personality. Don't like adventurers. Must be harvested yourself. There are literally thousands of reasons why they wouldn't hire adventurers.

I'd say you are wrong on that part. You of all people should know that the law can be used viciously to destroy people.

When was the last time you saw the law transform a person into a frog? Or the last time it uprooted a mountain in 6 seconds? Or granted wishes? Or teleported someone hundreds of miles in an instant? Knowing the law like a lawyer gives some power, but not nearly what magic does.

You say wizardry can't be taught because they'd teach their kids if it could, but you are missing entire slews of reasons. Some people are just bad teachers, sometimes kids aren't interested in the family job, generally they send them to be taught by someone else.

All that means is that not everyone would pass it on, but many would, and many of that increased number would as well. Eberron is the logical result of a world where everyone can learn magic.

And, you are just assuming that wizards don't teach their kids in the first place, which they could very well do, I mean, if you are born with magic, it is going to run in the family anyways.

That just results in everyone eventually being a wizard. Wizard teaches his 2 kids. One kid grows up and teaches his 5 kids. The other doesn't marry or have kids. The 5 grandchildren average 2 kids each, so now we have 10 more wizards all teaching their kids. And it keeps growing.

You realize families are small right?

Populations grow for a reason.

Why doesn't everyone know Gramma's secret recipe for pie, been passed down through the family for a hundred years.

It doesn't grant wishes. It doesn't cause great balls of fire! It just plain isn't as desirable as magic is.

 

[Catulle]

Yeah the subdivisions don't really address the issue (for me, anyway) since every caster is free to use spells from all the schools. The various schools might have been interesting if a) by default you could only cast spells from one school, b) it took a lot of work to learn additional schools, and c) there was something mechanically/functionally different about each school.

True, Jakandor was something pretty special...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I use the words differently. Psionics are fantastical, sure. And in that sense it is fantasy, sure.

But for me the genre of Fantasy means knights and wizards and dragons and gold. And for that, psionics are as poor a fit as are gnomish mechanical contraptions.

Fantasy is any fantastical speculative fiction involving supernatural elements. Dresden Files is just as much Fantasy as Lord of The Rings.

And Star Wars. Also Fantasy.