Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Dannyalcatraz]

People, if someone annoys you so much that you have to call them names or the like, simply use your ”Ignore” feature, don’t pollute the thread.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I'll ask you the same question. How many times since you've started playing has the DM told you that there is nothing left to find in the world? That it has all been found. No more dragon hordes. No more monsters that have gold or gems. Nothing left.

You know, a quick google search has shown me that there is currently an estimated 60 billion in sunken treasure in the world's oceans.

I bet there is even more lost in jungles or buried on islands.

In fact, I imagine if someone uncovered Vincent Van Goh's "Poppy Flowers" (a painting that was lost and still not recovered) that individual would suddenly become, looks like $50 million dollars richer.

However, that money doesn't appear out of thin air. The world doesn't become $50 million richer just because the painting was found.

And sure, dungeons carry money right? Actually hard coin. Clearly much better... except, again, not how things work. I find a billion dollars in cash buried in my backyard, the world economy isn't suddenly altered.

Humans in the game are played by humans in the real world and have human understandings. We only have our own experiences to fuel how we play.

That doesn't mean perfect mirroring of reality, but they will generally act like humans. Even elves, halflings, dwarves, etc. played by human players are more "human" than elf, halfing or dwarf.

The real world has an economy. D&D via a measure of realism also has an economy. That economy doesn't mirror the real world.

At no point am I ever advocating that D&D mirror reality.

You can't advocate for logical conclusions in the game world, then claim the game is fantasy and doesn't mirror reality when that logic turns against your point. You don't get to dictate that only the logic that supports you gets applied.

So no, there is no infinite wealth in the dungeons of the DnD world. And no, they wouldn't make everyone wealthy enough to learn magic.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

And sure, dungeons carry money right? Actually hard coin. Clearly much better... except, again, not how things work. I find a billion dollars in cash buried in my backyard, the world economy isn't suddenly altered.

Actually, that might have an effect on the economy, though only slight.

But, it would make the money worth less, rather than more. To bring this into the current discussion, the wizard teacher would be asking for more money because of this. More money that the noble/merchant wouldn't have.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Actually, that might have an effect on the economy, though only slight.

But, it would make the money worth less, rather than more. To bring this into the current discussion, the wizard teacher would be asking for more money because of this. More money that the noble/merchant wouldn't have.

I figured mentioning inflation would get brushed under the rug

 

[Guest 6801328]

Humans in the game are played by humans in the real world and have human understandings. We only have our own experiences to fuel how we play.

That doesn't mean perfect mirroring of reality, but they will generally act like humans. Even elves, halflings, dwarves, etc. played by human players are more "human" than elf, halfing or dwarf.

The real world has an economy. D&D via a measure of realism also has an economy. That economy doesn't mirror the real world.

At no point am I ever advocating that D&D mirror reality.

But, Max...economics are just the aggregated result of human behavior. How can you say, "Humans are going to behave logically..." and tell us how the humans in game world will inevitably, deterministically behave, comparing their behavior to the behavior of real world humans...and then...and then just dismiss economics as if it's OBVIOUS that this is a fantasy game and imaginary people will behave differently?

As far as I can tell, you've just invalidated the thing for which you've been vehemently arguing for the last 20 pages or so.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

So, for those just joining us, the discussion sits at the following.

Stated Position: There must be some sort of limiting factor to a person in the D&D world becoming a wizard because otherwise the world would be saturated with wizards.

1. The limiting factor can't be that people just aren't interested in becoming a wizard because wizards are superior to non-spellcasting paths of life and everyone would want to be one (or some other spellcaster).

2. The limiting factor can't be that it takes a long time to become a wizard because it has been established a PC can become a wizard in one day and this carries over to ALL potential wizards.

3. The limiting factor can't be that it requires one to be an exceptional student because there is no Intelligence requirement for a PC to become a wizard and this carries over to ALL potential wizards.

4. The limiting factor can't be that it is too expensive to become a wizard because all merchants and nobles could still afford to send their families to wizard school.

5. Other limiting factors can exist that aren't listed here and each GM can come up with their own combination, however the previous 4 are for certain 100% unacceptable because of the reasons listed.

Did I get all of that correct, Max?

Note: This post would use the sarcasm font if there was one available.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Note: This post would use the sarcasm font if there was one available.

I always did like the blue text from GiTP

 

[Maxperson]

So, for those just joining us, the discussion sits at the following.

Stated Position: There must be some sort of limiting factor to a person in the D&D world becoming a wizard because otherwise the world would be saturated with wizards.

1. The limiting factor can't be that people just aren't interested in becoming a wizard because wizards are superior to non-spellcasting paths of life and everyone would want to be one (or some other spellcaster).

2. The limiting factor can't be that it takes a long time to become a wizard because it has been established a PC can become a wizard in one day and this carries over to ALL potential wizards.

3. The limiting factor can't be that it requires one to be an exceptional student because there is no Intelligence requirement for a PC to become a wizard and this carries over to ALL potential wizards.

4. The limiting factor can't be that it is too expensive to become a wizard because all merchants and nobles could still afford to send their families to wizard school.

5. Other limiting factors can exist that aren't listed here and each GM can come up with their own combination, however the previous 4 are for certain 100% unacceptable because of the reasons listed.

Did I get all of that correct, Max?

Note: This post would use the sarcasm font if there was one available.

If by all, you meant none, then sure. None of those summarized my positions properly, but hey, carry on your sarcasm and don't let correctness get in your way.

 

[Chaosmancer]

If by all, you meant none, then sure. None of those summarized my positions properly, but hey, carry on your sarcasm and don't let correctness get in your way.

So the limiter can be that learning wizardry is expensive? That it takes a lot of time? or that not enough people would want to take the time, effort and spend the money to learn magic?

Because I believe you have explicitly stated repeatedly that all of those cannot be limiters. Especially since you just a few hours ago were saying there is infinite gold in dungeons to fund wizard training for merchants.

 

[Maxperson]

So the limiter can be that learning wizardry is expensive? That it takes a lot of time? or that not enough people would want to take the time, effort and spend the money to learn magic?

Because I believe you have explicitly stated repeatedly that all of those cannot be limiters. Especially since you just a few hours ago were saying there is infinite gold in dungeons to fund wizard training for merchants.

None of his 5 summaries involved my arguments as I stated them. All 5 had things that I did not say.