D&D 5E The case for (and against) a new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book

[Mercurius]

I think it does apply to other settings, perhaps even moreso because people might be less familiar with them, so there isn't even that. I'm not suggesting WOtC won't publish FR material, only the the format and contents aren't going to be driven by notions like "update the timeline". WIldemount is a pretty generic fantasy setting too, but it has that other little thing going for it. The MtG settings have that little thing too (less of it maybe). I just think that some established players underestimate how uninterested newer player would be in some of the things they agitate for.

I do think that new books will need to have something going for them that will appeal to players who don't have any ingrained loyalty to, or enthusiasm for, established settings.

Yes, I agree - especially so with your last sentence. So often we grognards and quasi-grognards project our preference and nostalgia onto others. I have a soft spot in my heart for Greyhawk, for instance, but I just don't see it having much contemporary widespread appeal.

 

[Fenris-77]

Both Dark Sun and Planescape/Spelljammer have things going for them that will appeal to newer players. With Dark Sun, anyone who games knows the post-apocalyptic genre, and the idea of D&D+post-apocalypse is something they can grok (Skyrim plus Fallout? Cool). It's exciting. Planejammer has that fusion of fantasy and sci-fi that's quite common in a lot of Manga and Anime, and that's a huge draw all by itself if it's done right. I think WotC would have to work pretty hard to get a FR setting to have anything like either of those broader appeals.

 

[Hoffmand]

This is like my fathers road map in his car. It is from the 80s, never mind that there is maps on your phone- but he will never have one and still uses his map.

The old map works, but there is so much more you can do with new stuff.

Have they updated the realms that much. I’m still a 2E player. So they now have satellites and automobiles and cell phone apps. Yeah. I guess they do need a big book to update all the changes that makes to the setting.

 

[Parmandur]

Both Dark Sun and Planescape/Spelljammer have things going for them that will appeal to newer players. With Dark Sun, anyone who games knows the post-apocalyptic genre, and the idea of D&D+post-apocalypse is something they can grok (Skyrim plus Fallout? Cool). It's exciting. Planejammer has that fusion of fantasy and sci-fi that's quite common in a lot of Manga and Anime, and that's a huge draw all by itself if it's done right. I think WotC would have to work pretty hard to get a FR setting to have anything like either of those broader appeals.

That's the strength of the focused Gazateers inside broad campaign books: Baldur's Gate as a Gothem-esque give of scum & villany is immediately graspable to the novice player.

 

[humble minion]

But I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Unless WotC really believes that a new and updated FRCS wouldn't be financially lucrative, or that it would stall the backlog of planned projects, given all of the factors, it just makes more sense to publish than not to publish. IMO.

Yeah, I'd agree with this I think.

Speaking personally, I'm a sucker for big indulgent RPG background books. I bought the massive Midgard worldbook hardcover, the Exalted 3rd ed Dragonblood book, damn near the entire range of FFG 40K rpg books, the brick-think Beckett's Diary lore book Onyx Path brought out for Vampire. I'm very unlikely to ever actually use any of these in a game. I'd buy the hell out of a 600 page comprehensive FR campaign setting book. But it's fairly obvious that WotC has to appeal to a wider demographic than just me (unfortunately!)

But the thing is - while WotC seems committed to their ... sedate .... release schedule, it appears from the outside at least, that this is at least partially motivated by an understandable desire to avoid the problems that beset 3e/3.5e when the sheer volume of player options, prestige classes, spells, feats etc began to be daunting and cumbersome and (in combination) cause significant balance problems. If they were willing to make a campaign setting that was JUST a campaign setting, with minimal player material, or even game material at all other than maybe a few iconic FR monsters - you might be able to short-circuit that. Jiust a gazetteer, comprehensive from the Hordelands to Maztica (you'd probably leave out Zakhara and Kara-tur, they are less tightly-coupled to the 'core' Realms than Maztica is). A guide to all the minor religions and gods that got cut from the SCAG due to space. A bit of history so that, for instance, a PC cleric of Tyr knows what it MEANS in-game that his god murdered a fellow deity and then disappeared for a century and then came back with no explanation and what the lawful, organised faith of Tyr thinks about this. Or what does it mean to be a follower of the Mulhorandi pantheon in the 'modern' Realms? There'd be no need for the rounds of UA or design or playtesting, you wouldn't even need the input of the game mechanics designers particularly. You could just hand it over to setting designers - I know Greenwood and Salvatore had a huge 5e FR setting bible drawn up way back at the start of 4e because they predicted a future when WotC would want to wind back the worst of the Spellplague rubbish, and I'm sure the internal WotC 5e Realms bible has been updated since then - and let them have at it. They couldn't break game balance because they wouldn't be writing game mechanical stuff in the first place. And the game design team and playtesters etc could focus on whatever the next adventure or setting or mechanics-heavy book was going to be. The opportunity cost of a big FR book might be able to be reduced this way - if you reduce the game design resources it would demand, it could potentially be done in parallel with the regular release schedule, not as part of it. It could even be done as a small print run or even Print on Demand if WotC were unsure what it'd sell like. Onyx Path have been operating like this for years.

Would this be my personal ideal of an FR book? Well, no - personally I'd want 600 pages of background PLUS player options for Halruaan jordaini monks and Maztican eagle knight paladins and a dozen new cleric domains for Realms gods and a pile of other things. But that isn't going to happen. But a pure setting book? I'd think that's more achievable.

 

[Fenris-77]

That's the strength of the focused Gazateers inside broad campaign books: Baldur's Gate as a Gothem-esque hive of scum & villany is immediately graspable to the novice player.

For sure. I actually find it way easier to imagine FR content coming out in a series of Gazetteers than in a huge generic setting book. Especially if each one had a targeted and specific flavor. A subclass or two, a background or two, some magic and some monsters, plus the setting bits and adventure hooks, all sharing a theme. WotC doesn't seem to do smaller books though, so IDK. Not every part of the Realms has that strong a theme, but if you broaden the scope to include, say, faction books, you can get a lot of coverage. I might use faction books to cover less thematically strong parts of the Realms.

 

[Parmandur]

For sure. I actually find it way easier to imagine FR content coming out in a series of Gazetteers than in a huge generic setting book. Especially if each one had a targeted and specific flavor. A subclass or two, a background or two, some magic and some monsters, plus the setting bits and adventure hooks, all sharing a theme. WotC doesn't seem to do smaller books though, so IDK. Not every part of the Realms has that strong a theme, but if you broaden the scope to include, say, faction books, you can get a lot of coverage. I might use faction books to cover less thematically strong parts of the Realms.

Well, but they already are: the Adventure books offer all that material, along with the main storyline attraction. Ghosts of Saltmarsh even details 2 or 3 Hexes of Greyhawk that way!

 

[R_J_K75]

Maybe you've paged through the SCAG at a friend's house while pinching a loaf.

Is that book now flagged and I have to buy it?

I've been running a FR game for years on and off with various groups. To the average player who shows up once a week to play I could take anything from any setting and throw it in my game and they'd never be the wiser that it didn't come from the Realms. I would assume that a good portion of people who buy setting books are DMs and the only players who care about lore are also DMs, and few players are going to read a setting book or a novel away from a gaming table. Do we need a setting book for FR outside of the SCAG. I don't think so. Would I like one, sure, I'd buy it if it came out. Im certain it would sell but I doubt it would do any better or any worse than any other setting book. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Fenris-77]

Well, but they already are: the Adventure books offer all that material, along with the main storyline attraction.

And that is both why they sell, and why a subset of experienced gamers don't like them. Too much of one thing and not enough of the other. Not that WotC is concerned, not if the books keep selling. I think for the Realms that if you take the adventure part out and replace it with more setting it would be way less attractive to a whole subset of current players. It's not a "complete" product if you can't plug and play, as it were. I do think you could produce similar books to Avernus on a smaller scale, as I outlined above, and they'd sell.

@R_J_K75 - if it goes into the bathroom with you, yeah, you're buying it.

 

[teitan]

One book for all of Faerun would be either too big and costly for most FR gamers to afford, or if it were condensed down to something affordable, would gloss over so many things as to be useless.

The DM's Guild is where we are likely to see such products. In fact we are already seeing it
Calimsham

Calimshan Adventurer's Guide - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Calimshan Adventurer's Guide - Explore Calimshan in this campaign sourcebook for the world's greatest roleplaying gameCalimshan! Land of intrigue, empi

www.dmsguild.com

The Border Kingdoms

The Border Kingdoms: A Forgotten Realms Campaign Supplement - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

The Border Kingdoms: A Forgotten Realms Campaign Supplement - According to the sage Meriadas of Westgate: “The Border Kingdoms are the most favored destination for adventurers wh

www.dmsguild.com

And I believe M.T. Black (Author of the Calimsham title) is working on an Anaurach one too. WotC can make any of these products 'official' any time they want, don't have to worry about production costs. As consumers, we can buy just the guides we need, when we need them - assuming there is one. If there hasn't been one written yet, then 3E will do for now.

I already addressed this in a previous post. They've done it before with 1e in less than 200 pages, 2e in less than 200 pages and 3e in 320 pages. It's an invalid argument. I find it, and will always find it, odd that people are fine with Eberron being a 320 page book with all of it's past supplements and the lack of adequate space for Xendrik and other continents but insist that it must be included for it to be a real FR book. It's an awful argument. It's never needed a huge tome, it will never need a huge tome to cover the core of the Realms. The other "settings" in the realms outside of the main core of the setting were rigged to the setting, Kara Tur, Al Qadim, Maztica. They've not had active FR development since their very limited runs in 1e or 2e. The core of setting from Moonshae to Thay, Unther and Mulhorrand, to the Dalelands and the Sea of Fallen Stars can be done with appropriate thoroughness as they have always been done in past corebooks or boxed sets for the Realms. They've never had an encyclopedic book or boxed set like people keep insisting in necessary. /end rant