D&D 5E The case for (and against) a new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book

[Paul Farquhar]

Clearly I am asking about the information in book. Anyone can Google that information.

Exactly!

Why would anyone want to pay for something that is easily available for free!?

Does not make sense.

You claim ToA has everything you need for Chult adventures. Ubtao is a substantial part of Chult. Obviously there is a disconnect here.

Ubtao is mentioned in the text where who the locals worship is relevant. The book is lacking in the index department though.

They are on the map yes. Which is why I am asking. Some groups may decide to set their adventures there.
However there are no site entries for these areas. There are no encounters of interest for these sites. Unlike the majority of the other sites that have been detailed.

None of this information is in the much vaunted 2nd or 3rd edition FR sourcebooks either.

Because you have to draw the line somewhere.

Do you expect an FR sourcebook to tell you the name of the chieftain's second wife for the unnamed village 16 miles south east of Port Nyanzaru?

The 3rd edition book has one page on Chult, and one short paragraph on Port Nyanzaru. ToA has a whole chapter on Port Nyanzaru alone.

If a new DM looks at the map they would assume Samarach is part of Chult.

And if they don't know that a place not on the map is part of another country their head will explode?

None of that stuff matters to a bunch of adventurers being chased by velociraptors down a hole in the ground in the middle of the jungle.

I say again, what you are after is fictional-history-porn, not something that is actually useful for playing D&D.

 

[teitan]

Exactly!

Why would anyone want to pay for something that is easily available for free!?

Great question!

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So you’re saying books on all these settings that people are asking for “why would anyone buy that?”. By the standard you just established people wouldn’t buy books related to any of these settings because the information is all free on the internets. About the only setting without a good wiki page is Planescape and that includes the MTG settings.

 

[Guest 6801328]

With the Death Curse you will need to be providing a motivating factor that is similarly world effecting.

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment...

1. I'm really sick of adventure paths that are predicated on needing to save the world.
2. ESPECIALLY when it's for 1st level adventurers.
3. Killing things and taking their stuff is a sufficiently motivating factor for me.

Really, I don't think it's very hard to remove Death Curse. "Hey, brand new adventurers, I need a McGuffin for my collection/research/phylactery. I'll pay you 1,000 gold to retrieve it from Chult."

 

[Paul Farquhar]

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment...

1. I'm really sick of adventure paths that are predicated on needing to save the world.
2. ESPECIALLY when it's for 1st level adventurers.
3. Killing things and taking their stuff is a sufficiently motivating factor for me.

Really, I don't think it's very hard to remove Death Curse. "Hey, brand new adventurers, I need a McGuffin for my collection/research/phylactery. I'll pay you 1,000 gold to retrieve it from Chult."

I kind of agree. The player characters might eventually discover that they are on a quest to save the world, but it shouldn't be apparent at the start. It removes the sense of exploring the world.

But it's not really an issue with ToA, it actually works better if you start the PCs out as a bunch of fortune seekers, and have them gradually uncover the Death Curse threat.

 

[Aldarc]

So what could a Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book provide - apart from setting info dump material - that expands the mechanics, rules, tools, etc. for the wider 5e audience?

For those who want a FRCS book for 5e (and maybe even those who don't), maybe we can brainstorm about what sort of additions would even be possible.

How about expanded rules for Epic or level 20+ campaigns?

 

[amethal]

Consider Chult. In a 5E FRCS, it would have to most of the material the 3E book has for that region, and add some lines explaining the Port Nyanzaru revolted and kicked out Amn. Ok, that's slightly different. Mostly the same, but slightly different yes. Is it better than the 3E version? I guess slightly, though paying an extra $50 for this marginal difference seems excessive (and we know you care about this since you find the adventures so expensive).

Chult is a bad example.

In Chult, the 3rd edition FRSC was pretty much invalidated by the 4th edition setting, which completely wiped out the native Chultan society but kept the colonial holding of Port Nyanzaru intact and added a few other colonial settlements. All the Chultans were eaten by dinosaurs, apart from those lucky enough to be living under foreign rule.

5th edition then had the revolt (or something - we don't actually know what happened) in Port Nyanzaru, and Mezro is now gone rather than destroyed.

 

[Parmandur]

I kind of agree. The player characters might eventually discover that they are on a quest to save the world, but it shouldn't be apparent at the start. It removes the sense of exploring the world.

But it's not really an issue with ToA, it actually works better if you start the PCs out as a bunch of fortune seekers, and have them gradually uncover the Death Curse threat.

It's actually shallow and tacked on: sure, it's an easy way to provide some motivation to get to the endgame rather than cutting and running halfway through, but it is not baked in...

 

[Parmandur]

Great question!

Eberron Wiki

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Spelljamming

Spelljamming is the conversion of magical energy directly into motive force for ships in space. There are myriad ways in which spelljamming can be accomplished; however, the typical method involves the use of standard Spelljammer Helms, such as the minor and major helms. Spelljamming ships have...

spelljammer.fandom.com

Dark Sun Wiki

The Burnt World of Athas, A Dark Sun Wiki. (darksun)

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Mistipedia

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Dragonlance

Dragonlance is a shared universe created by Laura and Tracy Hickman, and expanded by Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis under the direction of TSR, Inc. into a series of popular fantasy novels. The Hickmans conceived Dragonlance while driving in their car on the way to TSR for a job interview. At...

dragonlance.fandom.com

So you’re saying books on all these settings that people are asking for “why would anyone buy that?”. By the standard you just established people wouldn’t buy books related to any of these settings because the information is all free on the internets. About the only setting without a good wiki page is Planescape and that includes the MTG settings.

Those resources are, indeed, what WotC has to compete with when putting out a new Setting book. As you pointed out, why should we demand that people pay $50 for what they can get for free...?

The 5E Setting books so far have done an excellent job rising to that challenge.

 

[Parmandur]

This is what I am getting at though, you are advocating people in this approach to pay $50 for minimal material. I keep saying it and no one is willing to acknowledge that and how it’s a bad look for the game. It enforces an elistist stance and I’m not a PC kind of guy but in this case you are literally advocating for people to suck it up and not making the setting material available. WOTC wants the game available to all thus Basic being Free.

Would an FRCS be adequate? No but I’ve been advocating for full region books following on from SCAG. I only mention the FRCS because people kept saying it couldn’t be done in one book and required an 800+ volume.

Then again the FRCS and boxed sets are an overview and sourcebooks were available for greater detail on various regions which is an approach I very much advocate for because it works. The 3e FRCS is a benchmark in setting design. Largely it is the model for campaign setting design being a huge influence on Eberron and the 3.5 DLCS and the 5e setting books as well. All of them, including Wildemount, follow the same model but don’t quite get to that peak though Eberron 5e kinda comes close. I still think the 3.5 Eberron book is superior. Even Paizo continues to use the FR model for Golarion. Especially in PF1 with the central book, a couple hardcovers and small sourcebooks focused on regions that amplified the minisettings in the AP books. I think it’s great that WOTC essentially uses the same model for the adventures. I also think that on its own SCAG is a poor example of a setting book for FR.

Nobody has to buy ToA to run a game in Chult: making everything up is cheaper. But if they want a book to run a game in Chult, ToA has them covered at a reasonable price.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I also just want to chime in that "Buying/selling a TTRPG product that isn't a great value during a global pandemic is fiscally irresponsible" to be one of the most bizarre arguments I've ever read here. And that was a high bar already.