D&D 5E WotC Shares Theros Table of Contents

WotC has shared the table of contents of Mythic Odysseys of Theros. Well, part of it, at least. Update -- thanks to "obscureReviewer" on Twitter, here's a fuller image!

WotC has shared the table of contents of Mythic Odysseys of Theros. Well, part of it, at least.

table of contents.jpg


Update -- thanks to "obscureReviewer" on Twitter, here's a fuller image!

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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
They couldn't know in advance which concepts would pass muster, better to try out a bunch and see what people actually liked.
Yes, but they know what they want to put in the book, and don't go overboard and waste time designing things that won't make it into a book if they can avoid it. Ravnica had 3 playtest subclasses in Unearthed Arcana, the Order Cleric, Spores Druid, and Brute Fighter. The Brute Fighter was dropped because it was too similar to the Barbarian.

They didn't test 12 subclasses for Ravnica, Wildemount, or Eberron. They're not going to put that many subclasses in a setting book, or plan to do so. They have some idea of what they're going to do in the book, and they know what themes the community will probably like.

Trust me, the other subclasses will either be dropped due to unpopularity, or they will be in Xanathars 2.0. The majority of them will make their way to Xanathar's 2.0, I'm fairly sure. Just wait. Not much of a point of debating it now.
 

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Or, alternately, the people who were weren't allowed to be part of the conversation, even when it was the people whose culture it was supposed to be inspired by.
No, it was just not a thing. This is something that crept up from the movie makers. Using non black to play black people and it had a racist connotation to it. It was often done in the previous decades but now, it is viewed as a bad thing and unartistically thing to do. I had a few friends from oriental (china and vietnam) that were quite pleased that the hobby had given them a chance to play a bit of their culture. Of course it was not perfect, it was done from a western point of view after all. But it was better than most people think. They are judging from today's perspective and they do not try to understand that time's perspective dismissing it as a bad thing. In 20 years from now, our own perspective might be view as a bad tasteless thing that was archaic and close minded. Perspectives change over time. What was good a decade earlier will be bad two decades later and three more decades and it will be good again. Such are the wheels of history and its perspectives.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Yes, but they know what they want to put in the book, and don't go overboard and waste time designing things that won't make it into a book if they can avoid it. Ravnica had 3 playtest subclasses in Unearthed Arcana, the Order Cleric, Spores Druid, and Brute Fighter. The Brute Fighter was dropped because it was too similar to the Barbarian.

They didn't test 12 subclasses for Ravnica, Wildemount, or Eberron. They're not going to put that many subclasses in a setting book, or plan to do so. They have some idea of what they're going to do in the book, and they know what themes the community will probably like.

Trust me, the other subclasses will either be dropped due to unpopularity, or they will be in Xanathars 2.0. The majority of them will make their way to Xanathar's 2.0, I'm fairly sure. Just wait. Not much of a point of debating it now.

They tested four for Ravnica, Brute and Inventor didn't make it through the UA process. The Theros tests were pretty wild and experimental, that sort of testing is how they find out what people want to see in a final published book. Remember that UA is about the second draft, before they do any balance passes at all and are just looking for gut reaction feedback. Which is why they put them out ~8-9 months before they are thinking about putting them in a book, so they can find out what is wanted so they finalize the publication. 12 Subclasses do not take up many pages, at that.

That batch was for Theros: most didn't make the cut. Simple as that.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
1) Any book from any company are cash grab. A company is there to make cash. Otherwise there is no point in doing what they do.
They can try to make money without taking the easy way out for it. Magic: the Gathering settings are easy, so they'll continue making them. I know a lot more people would prefer Dark Sun to a M:tG setting, or a brand new setting altogether.
2) Right about that. But it could be argued that Mordenkainen, Elminster and Dalamar are close contender as they have been having conversations in Dragon Magazines decades ago when MTG did not even existed. The what is a planeswalker in D&D is debatable at worst. And what about the Immortals in the gold box set? They were planeswalking alright. Planeswalking has always been a part of D&D. Alternate worlds (even in the GDQ 1-4) or demi planes (WG 8, Isle of the Ape), or even in OD&D (X2 Castle Amber. Etienne would be a prime candidate for a Planeswalker as he does go to earth's France).
Yes, I don't think Planeswalkers should be in D&D. There is Vi, who could be a planeswalker, but this opens more questions than it solves, IMHO. I don't think Elminster or Mordenkainen are planeswalkers. They haven't been to any M:tG setting, probably have no idea what the "Blind Eternities" are. I think the best explananation of their traveling to Earth and other worlds are Sigil or Spelljammer, or a high level spell that lets them teleport.
3) Horror was not a genre for D&D and yet... Ravenloft proved me wrong. Psionics was trash, it was not D&D and yet, Darksun proved me wrong again. Ravnica works perfectly well within the D&D rules. I have the book and I absolutely love it. But my guess is that Theros will be the one that I will have in two copies... D&D can work in any setting. Remember Buck Rogers? Sci-fi with AD&D rules...
It's not the theme of the worlds, but the fact that adventures there are largely overshadowed by centuries of convoluted lore, planeswalkers, and the fact that Magic colors have no terms in D&D. I like the theme of New Phyrexia, but it wouldn't be a valid setting in D&D for a book, IMO.
4) That is true. But setting do not have to go as fast. It will be for the DM to decide to follow or not to follow the evolution. And they do not move back to setting as fast as you are implying. I am no longer a MtG player. But they kept the same pattern over the years and I think that if they go back to Ravnica, we would have a free PDF like we had for Innistrad, Ixalan, Kadalesh and Amonketh.
Yes, but any action of the players will be overshadowed by a storyline in an updated Magic block. GGR was released, and then the War of the Spark happened. This opens up a lot of issues of, "What's lore?" and "When are we?" and "How do we deal with this?". Sure, this can be solved by the DM, but that takes a ton of work on the DMs part, much more than any other 5e D&D world.
 

They tested four for Ravnica, Brute and Inventor didn't make it through the UA process. The Theros tests were pretty wild and experimental, that sort of testing is how they find out what people want to see in a final published book. Remember that UA is about the second draft, before they do any balance passes at all and are just looking for gut reaction feedback. Which is why they put them out ~8-9 months before they are thinking about putting them in a book, so they can find out what is wanted so they finalize the publication. 12 Subclasses do not take up many pages, at that.

That batch was for Theros: most didn't make the cut. Simple as that.
This is purely speculations but I do believe that a plane book is coming. A lot of the UA classes could be thought of as outer plane related classes. Your theory is as good as any. Nothing prevents them to test multiple classes for multiple books over a year. I don't see why they should restrict themselves with only the next year's books. A book can take two or three years to build up correctly. So testing a bit of the subclasses they think of including is a good thing.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
This is purely speculations but I do believe that a plane book is coming. A lot of the UA classes could be thought of as outer plane related classes. Your theory is as good as any. Nothing prevents them to test multiple classes for multiple books over a year. I don't see why they should restrict themselves with only the next year's books. A book can take two or three years to build up correctly. So testing a bit of the subclasses they think of including is a good thing.
Yes, there's no reason why the playtesting of a Planescape subclasses and a Theros subclasses UA can't intersect. A larger amount of player options in a book requires more time to playtest them and perfect them.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
This is purely speculations but I do believe that a plane book is coming. A lot of the UA classes could be thought of as outer plane related classes. Your theory is as good as any. Nothing prevents them to test multiple classes for multiple books over a year. I don't see why they should restrict themselves with only the next year's books. A book can take two or three years to build up correctly. So testing a bit of the subclasses they think of including is a good thing.

To be clear, I agree with that: there is something Planar stirring, and they started UA testing for that in January, which matches up with the timeline for previous UA to text test phases (about 2-3 fiscal Quarters). The September-October stuff was placed ideally for getting something in print in Q2 2020, namely Theros. Whatever they have been testing for now is for Q4.
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
Yes, there's no reason why the playtesting of a Planescape subclasses and a Theros subclasses UA can't intersect. A larger amount of player options in a book requires more time to playtest them and perfect them.

They've never tested something that made it to print that wasn't published with 12 months of UA, or at least retested within the timeframe before publication. There is a ryhthem to these projects.
 


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