D&D 5E People didn't like the Psionic Talent Die

[Mistwell]

well the proof is in the pudding.
Hasn't be done yet.

The 3.5 soul knife and both UA soul knives has resources to track.

Why not give them psychic cantrips?

 

[Minigiant]

Why not give them psychic cantrips?

Sure. That's good at 3rd level. Mage hand and some sort of telepathy thing.

The issue is making cool stuff higher level. The higher level stuff are all skill bonuses, speed bonuses, and outright crazy supernatural junk that requires resource tracking.

Soul Blades, Psychic Veil, and Rend Mind are too powerful to not have to be tracked by a resource. That's the problem.

 

[cbwjm]

Well... There's enough room for different version isn't there? Just like we have Wizards and Warlocks? If the Mystic hadn't tried to be EVERYTHING it wouldn't have needed to be such a GINORMOUS bloat of a thing with more flexibility than a Wizard with two spellbooks... Maybe they should just try to get ONE subclass right at a time afterall.

I mentioned it before that I thought the wide range of abilities the mystic had probably helped kill it. If they had focused in on two or three classic representations of psionics, as in what most people think of when thinking of psychics like telekinesis and telepathy, then it may have received further development. Unfortunately they seemingly tried to recreate every psi class from previous editions (and, weirdly, the wujen) which caused it to be overly complicated and too wide ranging in powers.

 

[Undrave]

I mentioned it before that I thought the wide range of abilities the mystic had probably helped kill it. If they had focused in on two or three classic representations of psionics, as in what most people think of when thinking of psychics like telekinesis and telepathy, then it may have received further development. Unfortunately they seemingly tried to recreate every psi class from previous editions (and, weirdly, the wujen) which caused it to be overly complicated and too wide ranging in powers.

How many pages was the Mystic UA? It was pretty beefy if I recall, WAY too beefy for just ONE class.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

A decent ranged cantrip that does Force damage (Mage Rage Hand or something) would let the Psychic Knight run around with a Sword or Axe or what have you without being limited.

Sure, it wouldn't be a cantrip if I was designing it, but the power level would be similar in terms of balance calculation.
Personally, I view giving cantrips to fighters to be counter productive, outside of utility cantrips. Cantrips keep up with the attack action for other classes, but they don't keep up with the fighter's attack action. Better to give them the ability to make an attack as part of the attack action by throwing a nearby object.

My point is telekinesis is a 5th level transmutation spell. It will cost something to do.

The spell named telekinesis is 5th level. Telekinesis as a general type of ability ranges from cantrip to end game power level.

Cool. What they other 3-4 class features? Fighter subclasses are 5 or more features. Rogue, Sorcerer, and Wizard are 4 or more features for their subclasses.

Tell ya what, you want me to design a class for your benefit, in a context that has nothing to do with my enjoyment, that's called work. Pay me.

Resource management is the fundamental challenge element of D&D.

And yet the rogue is one of the most fun classes in 5e.

Besides which, I didn't say that resource management is bad or that it doesn't add to the game, or anything like that, so...I'm not sure what you're responding to.

I said that it isn't necessary to do cool things.

 

[Minigiant]

Tell ya what, you want me to design a class for your benefit, in a context that has nothing to do with my enjoyment, that's called work. Pay me.

I wouldn't wish that on another person.

I am just seeing a level of frustration in Crawford in making the psionic characters. He states that he loves new mechanics and hving resources to track powerful features. The problem is the feedback has a majority who kinda hates that and a minority who really loves it. The two sides are opposed.

If they make complex psionics, they will get a lot of slightly negative feedback.
If they make simple psionics, they will get a good amount of very negative feedback.

That's what Crawford talks about at the 6:00 point of the video.

The excited majority wants the Champion Fighter but psionic. The passionate minority was the 3.5 psychic warrior or 4e battlemind or UA psychic knight.
Good luck Jeremy. That sounds like a headache.

 

[cbwjm]

How many pages was the Mystic UA? It was pretty beefy if I recall, WAY too beefy for just ONE class.

It was pretty beefy, though I think you'd have to treat the bulk of it, the disciplines, in much the same why we treat spells for spellcasters, as their own section in the book.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I wouldn't wish that on another person.

I am just seeing a level of frustration in Crawford in making the psionic characters. He states that he loves new mechanics and hving resources to track powerful features. The problem is the feedback has a majority who kinda hates that and a minority who really loves it. The two sides are opposed.

If they make complex psionics, they will get a lot of slightly negative feedback.
If they make simple psionics, they will get a good amount of very negative feedback.

That's what Crawford talks about at the 6:00 point of the video.

The excited majority wants the Champion Fighter but psionic. The passionate minority was the 3.5 psychic warrior or 4e battlemind or UA psychic knight.
Good luck Jeremy. That sounds like a headache.

Seems like a good reason to make a mix of complexity in the available Psionics options.

 

[Mistwell]

They should just use a mechanic which exists. Abilities which power off hit dice, hit points, exhaustion, spell slots, etc..

 

[Parmandur]

Sure, it wouldn't be a cantrip if I was designing it, but the power level would be similar in terms of balance calculation.
Personally, I view giving cantrips to fighters to be counter productive, outside of utility cantrips. Cantrips keep up with the attack action for other classes, but they don't keep up with the fighter's attack action. Better to give them the ability to make an attack as part of the at

I could see something like the Arcane Trickster special case for Mage Hand: a cantrip that uses the Fighter Attack action economy by Level, so it would be an attractive, always available action.