D&D 5E People didn't like the Psionic Talent Die

[Tales and Chronicles]

I could see something like the Arcane Trickster special case for Mage Hand: a cantrip that uses the Fighter Attack action economy by Level, so it would be an attractive, always available action.

I agree. Here's a simple take.

fighter, Kinetic Adept

lvl 3:
Kinetic Push.
Starting at 3rd level, you can cast mage hand and you can make the spectral hand invisible. The hand can carry a number of pounds equals to 2x your Int Score, but you cant make attack with it and you can use it as a bonus action. As a bonus action on your turn, you can try to Shove one creature within 5 ft of the hand. You add your Int mod to the the roll of your contested check.

Also, while the hand is holding an small of medium object, you can give up an attack on your turn to make a ranged attack, using Int mod for the attack roll and damage roll, as if you were proficient with said object. The object deals 1d8 force damage on a hit.

Kinetic Rush.
At level 3, you can sacrifice an attack on your turn to force a creature within 5 ft of you to make a STR saves against a DC equal to 8+prof+Int mod. On a failed save, you can push the creature up to 20 ft, provided you move with the creature along the same path. This attack does not require any movement from you, but your speed needs to be at least equal to the distance you move the creature.

lvl 7:
Psionic celerity.
When you move on your turn in combat, you can double your speed until the end of the turn. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you move 0 feet on one of your turns.

lvl 10:
Psionic Weapons.
At 10th level, you gain the ability to cloak yourself in field of force for 1 minute or until your concentration ends (as if you were concentrating on a spell). As a bonus action, you cast Catapult, without expending a spell slot and you exude an aura of pure psionic powers. During this time, you can cast Catapult as a bonus action on each of your turns, without expending a spell slot.

You cant use this feature again until you completed a long rest.

lvl 14:
Kinetic anchor.
As a reaction when an effect would pull or push you against your will, you can negate the movement. Furthermore, creatures of your choice cannot teleport in or out within 5 ft of you.

lvl 18:
Kinetic Mastery.
Your speed increases by 10 ft. If you move at least 30 feet straight toward a target and then hit it with a melee weapon attack on the same turn, the attack deals force damage equals to half your fighter level and you can push the creature 10 ft in any direction, horizontally or vertically.

 

[Parmandur]

However, this right here, this whole "We do what the audience wants, we don't take risks, or make people try new things" approach that Crawford is taking?

They take risks, they just don't ask people to pay for the risks until they've taken them for a test run.

They are taking smarter risks than they used to, because they get the idea out there and are able to see how it is received before nailing it in a publication.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Another take;

rogue, Lurker

lvl 3:

Psionic thrust.
As an action of your turn, you can force a creature within 30 ft to make a WIS save against a DC of 8+prof+Int. On a failed save, the creature takes psychic damage equals to your sneak attack feature.

Mind meld.
As part of your Cunning action, you can communicate telepathically with one creature you can see within 120 feet of you. The target must have an Intelligence of at least 2, otherwise this talent fails and the action is wasted. This communication can occur until the end of the current turn. You don't need to share a language with the target for it to understand your telepathic utterances, and it understands you even if it lacks a language. You also gain access to one memory of the target's choice, gaining perfect recall of one thing it saw or did.

Sleight of mind.
As part of your Cunning Action, you plant a false belief in the mind of one creature that you can see within 60 feet of you. You can create a sound or an image. Only the target of this talent perceives the sound or image you create.

- If you create a sound, its volume can range from a whisper to a scream. It can be your voice, someone else's voice, a creature's roar, a musical instrument, or any other sound you pick. It lasts for 1 minute.

- If you create an object, it must fit within a 5-foot cube and can't move or be reflective. The image can't create any effect that influences a sense other than sight. The image lasts for 1 minute, and it disappears if the creature touches it.

lvl 9
Steal Sight:
As an action, you erase your image from the mind of one creature you can see within 120 feet of you; the target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw, or you are invisible to it until the end of your next turn.

lvl 13
Steal Skill:
When you use Mind Meld, you can ''borrow'' the skills of the creatures. If the creature is unwilling, it can make a CHA save to resist the effect. On a failed save, you gain proficiency in one skill in which the creature is proficient. If would gain proficiency in a skill you are already proficient, the chosen skill instead benefit from your Expertise feature. The effect last until the end of your next short rest.

lvl 17:
Psionic reversal
When you would be subject to an negative condition after a failed save, you can use your reaction to transfer the effect to another. Make a Sleight of Hand check against the DC made to resist the effect. On a success, one creature within 15 ft of you receive the effect instead of you.

 

[Undrave]

I probably would be happy with just four classes, but last I checked it was a lot more than that.

I don't understand the need, that apparently some people have, for a constant stream of new character mechanics. It is new adventures that keep the game fresh, IMO.

See... I had more time to think about the question 'SHOULD the game evolve'...

People often mistakenly consider evolution as being a thing a species does to get 'better', or that evolution is a constant progression. Truth of the matter is that evolution is about adapting to your environment. It's not the 'strong' who survive, it's those that are the best suited for their current condition, and if those conditions change they either adapt or die.

In the case of D&D, or any product of its kind, if it doesn't adapt to changes in its environment then it will 'die' by losing too many customers.

And here's the thing... people change ALL the time. I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago, 8 years ago or not even 5 years ago. My tastes change, my opinions can change, and I'm not alone... In other words, this mass of people's opinions, of ever changing people's ever changing opinion, IS D&D's environement.

If the game doesn't evolve and just keeps pumping out Adventures that you can solve with the same ol' skills and same ol' spells on the same ol' classes or the same ol' characters... Well maybe you'll have people who will be content with this, and that's fine... but there's also a large portion of the player base that'll get bored. They'll get bored of the classes they've been playing for 10 years+ and want to try something different... And if D&D no longer has anything different (For exemple, if you're into mundane characters, D&D has a VERY Limited range of options. Out of the PHB alone there is the Berzerker, the Champion, the Battlemaster, the Thief and the Assassin who don't have supernatural powers, wth Berzerker (and Open Hand Monks) being very borderline. You'll run out of those options fast) people are just going to go elsewhere.

Maybe that stable core will attract new players to replace the ones who leave... but will that be enough? Is that a risk WotC is willing to take?

A commercial product is like a living animal, and the more it engages people in complex ways, the way D&D does, the more evolutionary pressure there is to keep evolving because the 'environment' is constantly in flux. Even Monopoly comes out with new versions from time to time, even if the classic is always on shelves.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I could see something like the Arcane Trickster special case for Mage Hand: a cantrip that uses the Fighter Attack action economy by Level, so it would be an attractive, always available action.

Yeah, something like that. A stronger mage hand, and you can use whatever it’s holding as a weapon with which you’re proficient.
I’d be fine with the ability to boost the damage temporarily x/rest, but also fine without it.

Which is pretty much what he said in the video that they were going to do. Which is also why I’m not convinced the psionic die is actually DOA. It’s just more likely to be a one-off thiNo for a particular subclass instead of being the defining feature of psionics.

yeah, that’s what I’m hoping for. I’d prefer it to be a choice, to gain a temporary boost at the cost of shrinking the die, and some mechanic to increase the die again, but if a single subclass has it as it was,

I agree. Here's a simple take.

fighter, Kinetic Adept

lvl 3:
Kinetic Push.
Starting at 3rd level, you can cast mage hand and you can make the spectral hand invisible. The hand can carry a number of pounds equals to 2x your Int Score, but you cant make attack with it. As a bonus action on your turn, you can try to Shove one creature within 5 ft of the hand. You add your Int mod to the the roll of your contested check.

IMO, it has to be able to be used to attack, or there’s little point in adding it

 

[Weiley31]

I guess the lesser of the two evils is that a Subclass gets the Psionic Talent Die. Still sad about it, bit at least it would still be there some what.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

IMO, it has to be able to be used to attack, or there’s little point in adding it

Well, you can push 5ft or prone with it as a bonus action, giving you advantage on your bunch of attacks, just like Shield Master.
Maybe at higher level it could wield a weapon and you could divide your attacks between yours and your mange hand's.

 

[Mistwell]

See... I had more time to think about the question 'SHOULD the game evolve'...

People often mistakenly consider evolution as being a thing a species does to get 'better', or that evolution is a constant progression. Truth of the matter is that evolution is about adapting to your environment. It's not the 'strong' who survive, it's those that are the best suited for their current condition, and if those conditions change they either adapt or die.

In the case of D&D, or any product of its kind, if it doesn't adapt to changes in its environment then it will 'die' by losing too many customers.

And here's the thing... people change ALL the time. I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago, 8 years ago or not even 5 years ago. My tastes change, my opinions can change, and I'm not alone... In other words, this mass of people's opinions, of ever changing people's ever changing opinion, IS D&D's environement.

If the game doesn't evolve and just keeps pumping out Adventures that you can solve with the same ol' skills and same ol' spells on the same ol' classes or the same ol' characters... Well maybe you'll have people who will be content with this, and that's fine... but there's also a large portion of the player base that'll get bored. They'll get bored of the classes they've been playing for 10 years+ and want to try something different... And if D&D no longer has anything different (For exemple, if you're into mundane characters, D&D has a VERY Limited range of options. Out of the PHB alone there is the Berzerker, the Champion, the Battlemaster, the Thief and the Assassin who don't have supernatural powers, wth Berzerker (and Open Hand Monks) being very borderline. You'll run out of those options fast) people are just going to go elsewhere.

Maybe that stable core will attract new players to replace the ones who leave... but will that be enough? Is that a risk WotC is willing to take?

A commercial product is like a living animal, and the more it engages people in complex ways, the way D&D does, the more evolutionary pressure there is to keep evolving because the 'environment' is constantly in flux. Even Monopoly comes out with new versions from time to time, even if the classic is always on shelves.

Some people play the same character for five years straight. Some others don't play often enough to run through even that number of types of characters since 5e began, much less since they picked up 5e themselves. Monopoly didn't come out with new versions for many decades and remained highly popular.

I think your analysis might be correct but your time scale off. For the few going at the speed you're implying, there is third party content. But I don't think the game dies if it fails to keep up with the speed you're implying - I think that speed is a rarity.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well, you can push 5ft or prone with it as a bonus action, giving you advantage on your bunch of attacks, just like Shield Master.
Maybe at higher level it could wield a weapon and you could divide your attacks between yours and your mange hand's.

I'd rather flip that. TO me, the point is to throw objects at my enemies, not to push them around. This was exactly my issue with the psychic warrior, and the claim that it was "like darth vader". In the OT, Vader doesn't particularly throw people around, but he does throw objects at Luke. To me, a core part of the idea of a warrior with psychic powers is directly using those powers as a weapon. To hit people.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Anakin throws plenty of battle droids around.