D&D General Problematic issues with TSR era D&D from a modern lens

Retreater

Legend
The way I look at it, as a game system, it should present itself in a relatively neutral manner that can fit in most settings. The setting is what should suggest social, gender and economic realities. If someone wants to make a setting ala Conan where women wear bikini mails and are cattle for muscular conquerors, so be it; some people grew up reading that stuff and will take interest in it. But the game system itself should be really open and allow for a large variety of settings.
My personal preference is a variety of artistic styles to reflect the spectrum of games and gamers. This is one of the reasons I've been turned off by the "iconics" in 3.x era and Pathfinder. I don't like the look of a unified campaign world "look" in a core book (though in a campaign setting book, that's fine). Depict steampunk dwarves on one page, Hyperborean barbarians on the next, traditional epic fantasy later, some gothic horror, and so on. Art should be inspirational to players and appeal to a broad spectrum. I think this is best achieved by displaying many types of campaigns in a variety of settings, rather than one standard.
The 5e PHB does this better than 3.x or 4e.
 

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TheAlkaizer

Game Designer
My personal preference is a variety of artistic styles to reflect the spectrum of games and gamers. This is one of the reasons I've been turned off by the "iconics" in 3.x era and Pathfinder. I don't like the look of a unified campaign world "look" in a core book (though in a campaign setting book, that's fine). Depict steampunk dwarves on one page, Hyperborean barbarians on the next, traditional epic fantasy later, some gothic horror, and so on. Art should be inspirational to players and appeal to a broad spectrum. I think this is best achieved by displaying many types of campaigns in a variety of settings, rather than one standard.
The 5e PHB does this better than 3.x or 4e.

I fully agree.

Reading my paragraph through your quote made me realize it could look like I'm advocating for a homogenized neutral art style through the book; but what I'm actually questioning is one homogenized art style pointing in one direction, flavor or setting. By having a huge variety of art style, you effectively achieve the setting neutrality I was talking about.
 

ccs

41st lv DM
And how would you address it if you were in charge to go back and rewrite those games?

No need. It was already done with 2e. And 3rd ed. And 3.5. And 4e, PF, 5e, PF2 & any # of other games/systems. Heck, if you want to take a shot yourself, there's the OGL. You can copy (and change) any edition you like.

But return to the late 70s & rewrite 1e at the source? No. I would not go back & rewrite those games/editions. In fact I would go back with intent to thwart others from doing so.
 

TheSword

Legend
I’m troubled by the lack of non-white European cultures in 1st Edition/Basic.

Luckily AD&D broadened the concept of fantasy to more diverse backgrounds. With a wide range of new campaign settings 😜
 

Retreater

Legend
I’m troubled by the lack of non-white European cultures in 1st Edition/Basic.

Luckily AD&D broadened the concept of fantasy to more diverse backgrounds. With a wide range of new campaign settings 😜
What I've read about Mystara in recent months seems like there are many non-European cultures, with an even greater number in the Hollow World. It is a lot more creative than I thought at the time.
 



MGibster

Legend
About the only thing that bothers me about old school D&D was strength caps based on gender. Other than that, I'm not particular bothered from a presentation perspective. That said, I have zero interest in ever playing any version of AD&D ever again and 5th edition is my favorite thus far (I miss the golden age of settings during 2nd though). To paraphrase Muhammad Ali, "If you're the same gamer at 44 that you were at 14, you've wasted 30 years of gaming."
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
I don’t usually post in these kinds of threads, but this one seemed to make me think of a response that may be relevant.

I personally never found any of the old TSR stuff problematic at all. Not really any of it, to be honest. Sometimes some phrase or bit of art would kind of stand out in some way....a little too scandalous or whatever....but I dismissed them as one-offs.

None of that stuff was ever really offensive to me.

So, when I started hearing how it was offensive to some, my initial instinct was to dismiss the concerns. But, as I’ve matured, I realize how different our experiences can be. So now, when someone finds something offensive, I tend to listen so that I can learn something instead of assuming that everyone’s experience should match mine.

That being said, in products that come out today, I notice this kind of stuff much more readily. I think we’re all (generally speaking) just more aware of this. I think it’s good that we’ve made some progress in this area and that most topics tend to be approached with thought and care.

I do think that our standards of judgment for modern material versus older material should be a bit different though.

I also think that generally speaking, we’ve become too....resistant, I suppose, to offense. Sometimes, things may be offensive, and that doesn’t always mean they need to be changed or removed. Offense due to laziness or lack of care? Sure, that can be corrected. But lots of creative works are meant to provoke, and that’s naturally going to lend itself to being offensive to some. And I think that’s important.

So....if some of the more problematic elements from the TSR days were somehow presented today, I think it would depend on what it was and why it is being presented in such a way today. Is it just thoughtlessness? Or is there some meaningful discussion to be had, or more importantly, some interesting topic to explore through play?

The former can go. The latter, though? I think we need to preserve that at all costs.
 

Coroc

Hero
You surely missed a lot of Eva's stuff in the 4e era. Please don't tell me that this isn't sexy ;)

tumblr_ndcnis34NN1u05xmdo1_1280.jpg
Sleepless in the cattle?
 

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