TwoSix
Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I'd argue that any class distinction is inherently pigeonholing. Why not just roll stats and roleplay the character you want?
D&D 5E Subclass System in 5e- Too Much, Too Little, or Just Right (GOLDILOCKS POLL!)
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
Essentially I would remove a lot of the classes in the game and condense the list. Why would I do such a thing? Because I would rather have fewer choices that feel significant, than more choices that don't feel significant. This is a personal hangup of mine, and I realize not everyone will feel this way, and I know a lot of people will suggest ways I should feel differently, but there it is.
Or, as @commandercrud says:
Pretty much, yeah.
Anyways. In my mind, the best way to do it is to just be selective of which subclasses you want/need in the game, or maybe combine the best features of the subclasses into a single one, and use it. Take the Rogue for example: you would just pick the variety of "bard" that best fits the campaign and setting, and make it a subclass of the rogue.
Rogue
- Arcane Trickster
- Assassin
- Your favorite kind of Bard, or a FrankenBard
- Thief
Or maybe like this, if you prefer long lists, or if you want more than one flavor of bard in the game:
Rogue
- Arcane Trickster
- Assassin
- Favorite kind of Bard
- Second-favorite kind of Bard
- Third-favorite kind of Bard
- Another Bard
- Yet another Bard
- Bard II: Bard Harder
- Bard III: Live Free or Die Bard
- Thief
But it would not look like this, unless you are trying to make a mess:
Rogue
- Arcane Trickster
- Assassin
- Bard
- Bard
- Bard
- Bard
- Thief
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Helldritch
Hero
Everything is fine as is right now. Save the feats. I would've like to see "Racial" and "Class" feats given in addition to normal feat. They could've been what we consider half a feat but would be given freely at every four levels.
For example: A dwarven fighter could chose between a racial feat or fighter feat. Let's say one of the racial feat could be dwarven magic resistance. A simple +1 to save vs spells. Or a fighter feat like prefered weapon where you could get +1 hit or damage with one weapon of your choice.
For example: A dwarven fighter could chose between a racial feat or fighter feat. Let's say one of the racial feat could be dwarven magic resistance. A simple +1 to save vs spells. Or a fighter feat like prefered weapon where you could get +1 hit or damage with one weapon of your choice.
It also forces the game to create more options due to the deviations made since 1e within classes.
Say you make a Ranger a Fighter subclass, well nowyou have less design space for Hunters, Beastmasters, and Horizon Walkers.
Actually going back to 4 classes limits the game more as you now have to cram the old subclasses into the new subclasses.
How do you make a Oathbreaker, Berserker, a Echo Knight, and a Beastmaster from the same class?
With a lot of acetaminophen and LOT of feat chains.
commandercrud
Hero
As long as they toned down something else. 5e is already too superheroic as it is.
commandercrud
Hero
Most subclasses can be replaced with roleplay.
Is the DM just going to let me roleplay a my echo swapping places with me?
Or my bear attack one guy while I attack another guy?
Or give me a flight speed while raging?
Then you are asking the designers to balance Rage, Smite, Beasts, and Horsemanship against each other
Tales and Chronicles
Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
I say too limiting:
Shadow of the Demon Lord, a game that plays roughly like D&D with a 10 level cap, has ALL character gain 5 level from their main class, 3 from an expert class and 2 from a master class and 2 from race. Meaning that you always have 4 decisions points to build your pc (in the case of SotDL its even better because you can decide to start a fighter novice path, take an expert path of druid and end with master path of fire magic!).
In opposite, you have 5e's bard who, over 20 (!) levels, only gain 3 feature from their subclass and the character race only has a mechanical impact at first level, it never goes further.
I wished D&D would go with 1-2 racial feature levels, 8 ''main class level'', maybe 1-2 features of variant main class (ala warlock pact) and 5 subclass features. Even better would be to let ASI/Feat be outside of the class chassis (maybe 1 every 4 levels, like for now), to give more space to class/subclass features.
Shadow of the Demon Lord, a game that plays roughly like D&D with a 10 level cap, has ALL character gain 5 level from their main class, 3 from an expert class and 2 from a master class and 2 from race. Meaning that you always have 4 decisions points to build your pc (in the case of SotDL its even better because you can decide to start a fighter novice path, take an expert path of druid and end with master path of fire magic!).
In opposite, you have 5e's bard who, over 20 (!) levels, only gain 3 feature from their subclass and the character race only has a mechanical impact at first level, it never goes further.
I wished D&D would go with 1-2 racial feature levels, 8 ''main class level'', maybe 1-2 features of variant main class (ala warlock pact) and 5 subclass features. Even better would be to let ASI/Feat be outside of the class chassis (maybe 1 every 4 levels, like for now), to give more space to class/subclass features.
| 0 Race feature/Background feature | |
| 1 class feature, subclass feature | 11 class feature |
| 2 class feature | 12 Racial feature |
| 3 class specialty (fighting style/pact boon etc) | 13 subclass feature |
| 4 Race feature | 14 class feature |
| 5 class feature | 15 class feature |
| 6 subclass feature | 16 class feature |
| 7 class feature | 17 subclass feature |
| 8 class feature | 18 class feature |
| 9 background feature | 19 Class captstone |
| 10 subclass feature | 20 Subclass capstone |
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