Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[Micah Sweet]

I don’t want that at all.

They why do piercing, slashing and bludgeoning exist? Why not just call it weapon damage, or physical?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Well that depends totally on how your campaigns are made. Of course a wizard can shift everybody to another plane, but if the fighter does not protect him there he will die. A god or other epic being will crush either wizard or fighter alone, but as a cooperating full group they maybe find a cunning way to deal with it.

On the other hand a cleric, a paladin, a barbarian, or even a captive high level monster can substitute for the fighter. A cleric or warlock can sometimes substitute for a wizard. Also if you've two wizards you might be able to have one planeshift and the other dragon-transform. If you have two fighters you're not even DOA - because you can't even start the journey.

Being good at combat is not a role - everyone contributes in combat. The fighter, pretty much alone, is not much use anywhere else.

 

[Asisreo]

I think what you're missing is there's a fairly large camp of players that DO want rules for it, specifically player-facing rules that are not strictly dependent on DM fiat to work.

You're welcome to explain to them that they shouldn't want what they want, of course.

Emphasis mine.

What counts as a fairly large camp of players? A majority? More than 25%? How many are opposed?

It might have occured very early in development but the concept they had wasn't good enough and they weren't going to be able to make an improved system that would have been good enough before the deadline (such is the fate of real-world businesses). Maybe the game would have been better for it, but it doesn't feel like it since they haven't even made a real effort to address it in any UA.

 

[FrogReaver]

They why do piercing, slashing and bludgeoning exist? Why not just call it weapon damage, or physical?

Legacy? I mean I think a few monsters interact with those damage types.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It would be interesting if the Fighter class had a set of martial abilities that it could "prepare" each day, sort of the way that the cleric and wizard prepare their spells for the day. If you knew that you were going to be crawling through a dungeon, you would load up on melee combat tricks and tactics....if you knew that you would be hunting beasts in the jungle, you would prepare your tracking and ranged abilities. Etc.

Not a bad idea, but what is the logic behind the narrative for it? I understand casters who need to prepare spell and those with known spells, just as a BM has known maneuvers. But how can a fighter have learned something like a trick or tactic for a situation, but then forget it so he can "prepare" another?

FWIW, I'm not against the mechanic at all, but without a narrative support for it I find it hard to justify personally.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

It might have occured very early in development but the concept they had wasn't good enough and they weren't going to be able to make an improved system that would have been good enough before the deadline (such is the fate of real-world businesses). Maybe the game would have been better for it, but it doesn't feel like it since they haven't even made a real effort to address it in any UA.

The question is not if was popular enough for Basic 5e, its to know if it is popular enough for people actually interested in playing Advanced 5e by Enworld Publishing.

 

[Asisreo]

On the other hand a cleric, a paladin, a barbarian, or even a captive high level monster can substitute for the fighter. A cleric or warlock can sometimes substitute for a wizard. Also if you've two wizards you might be able to have one planeshift and the other dragon-transform. If you have two fighters you're not even DOA - because you can't even start the journey.

Being good at combat is not a role - everyone contributes in combat. The fighter, pretty much alone, is not much use anywhere else.

A barbarian and arguably a paladin has much the same problem as a fighter OOC. A bard is a better substitute for wizard than either cleric or warlock and wizards certainly aren't a necessary class. You could easily not have a wizard and function well as an adventuring group as well. What a wizard contributes, any spellcaster could.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Legacy? I mean I think a few monsters interact with those damage types.

I would also be ok with just removing them, if we are not to include them in any meaningful ways. If they dont matter 90% of the time, might as well save the page count.

That's a little sad, because I actually liked the idea of the fighter specialized with crafting weapon made to exploit big-a** monster's weakness. But maybe that steps a little on the ranger theme? And that would require rewritting most of the monsters to actually have said weakness.

Oh well...

 

[Asisreo]

The question is not if was popular enough for Basic 5e, its to know if it is popular enough for people actually interested in playing Advanced 5e by Enworld Publishing.

Well...is it? There's probably 6-10 people that contribute to this thread and are outspoken about what they want. Maybe an upward half of them has said they want a fighter to have strongholds and keeps built within the chassis.

Is that what we want? Or is that just the loudest people speaking? Can't remember the survey results and whether they addressed it but I'm fairly certain there wasn't anything specific like this in there.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Those 2 are demigods too.

So are like, half of all mythological figures. if we take every single "has god-blood in their lineage" individual out, we are probably left with very slim pickings.

How about Samurai Jack versus the three bind archers???


Or Samurai Jack versus some bounty hunters?


Or One Punch Man versus Boros?


Or Maud Pie versus a giant rock??

All excellent, though I think One Punch man is a bad example, because he is specifically designed to be far more powerful than anything ever.

Imo the fighter, or rather one variant of fighter, should be merged with the ranger and be more like Gerald. That means monster knowledge and preparation, be it through poisons, traps or just knowledge which weapon to use against which monster (A sword against lizardmen? Only when you hit the legs. For the rest you need an axe).

Sadly a not insignificant number of players do not want a fighter who switches weapons based on the enemy and instead want to always use the same weapon which in the past even resulted in heirlom rules to increase the power of an existing weapon.

Part of that is simplicity. Having different weapons react to different skins in different ways is just slathering complexity onto something most people would rather keep simple.

Yeh it is like this:
If you play in my campaign, which goes to level 20, and you got the opinion, that at level 9 you should be the proud baron of an estate, with 200 level 1 fighters equiped with chainmail, shield and spear, for you to command them around to your pleasure, than that might be where my campaign is going - but maybe at level 9 you are rather stuck at the 587th level of the abyss, and a not so nice demon lord is commanding you around at his pleasure.

Which of the two applys, i as the DM do decide, not any books with rules.

Sort of agree, from a different perspective

Why is the fighter who killed a dozen men in the civil war getting the barony instead of the Ranger who led the King's Army through the forest in a surprise flanking maneuver that won the day? Or the Bard whose inspiring speech rallied the King's forces to hold the line? Or the Cleric whose godly magic cured the King of the poisons threatening his life? Or the Wizard whose magic revealed that the Duke of CR was really a traitor to the crown and leading the rebellion?


Maybe this isn't your point, specifically, but this is why I find the "fighters will inevitably become landed nobles with armies" to be missing the point of the fiction. Anyone could be granted that land and those servants. Don't make it reliant on class. Make it a seperate sub-system, maybe have special perks where a Cleric can found a church instead of raising a barony, but don't make it part of every single level 12 fighter.