D&D 5E New class options in Tasha

[Mistwell]

Can we stop referring to long rests as 'naps'?! It's pretty stupid. It's EIGHT hours, once per twenty-four hours. It's not a nap.

My cat disagrees with you

 

[Mistwell]

That sounds so wrong. I don't like the rule either, but the sorcerer being more versatile is bollocks.
Being able to switch a single spell at a time does not make you versatile. It makes you able to adapt just a tiny bit.

Adapting better is being more versatile. They are the same thing.

It's not such a little bit. Again, in my experience most wizards swap one spell per long rest on average, not a bunch of them. It's rare that it's a bunch of them. Most of the versatility comes from just one. There are diminishing returns beyond the first. It's a single knock spell, or a single levitate spell, or whatever might be required to help with the next challenge down the line.

The sorcerer does not even know as much spells as the wizard can prepare.

They know ALL the spells on their list, to the Wizard only knowing two per level after level one, unless they find magic items to enhance that which we don't assume. And that spell list they know is literally the second largest spell list in the game.

 

[Hohige]

Adapting better is being more versatile. They are the same thing.

It's not such a little bit. Again, in my experience most wizards swap one spell per long rest on average, not a bunch of them. It's rare that it's a bunch of them. Most of the versatility comes from just one. There are diminishing returns beyond the first. It's a single knock spell, or a single levitate spell, or whatever might be required to help with the next challenge down the line.

I couldn't agree more

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm still struggling to see how the Sorcerer being able to replace ONE spell known per long rest in an optional rule variant somehow destroys the versatility of the Wizard who can replace all their spells prepared per long rest.

And can cast their rituals without preparing them, and have more prepared spells.

 

[Hohige]

And can cast their rituals without preparing them, and have more prepared spells.

That's not the point, man. The point is that the Wizard needs DM fiat and a lot of money / downtime to acquire spells in his spellbook, while the sorcerer now automatically knows his entire spell list. If it is Divine Soul knows automatically 2 lists.
This puts the Wizard at a clear disadvantage.
This is the point under analysis.

 

[Flamestrike]

the sorcerer now automatically knows his entire spell list.

No he doesnt. He has access to his whole list.

Which at the end of a Long rest he can switch out one spell known for a different one from that list.

Which for all intents and purposes is not a big deal.

The Wizard can switch out ALL his spells known at the end of a Long rest for a totally different loadout, and also knows more spells than the Sorcerer at all material times, with that gap only growing as the Wizard advances in level.

 

[Dausuul]

It's not such a little bit. Again, in my experience most wizards swap one spell per long rest on average, not a bunch of them.

My experience is that wizards usually swap zero spells per long rest. The average is slightly above zero, but it's well below one. Versatility depends far more on the number and variety of spells you can put in your loadout, allowing you to adapt to challenges on the fly, than on your ability to alter the loadout on a long rest.

 

[Chaosmancer]

No he doesnt. He has access to his whole list.

Which at the end of a Long rest he can switch out one spell known for a different one from that list.

Which for all intents and purposes is not a big deal.

The Wizard can switch out ALL his spells known at the end of a Long rest for a totally different loadout, and also knows more spells than the Sorcerer at all material times, with that gap only growing as the Wizard advances in level.

This.

Just because you can have any spell prepared does not mean you will have the correct one prepared.

And if you think that you can just casually change one of 6 spells without fundamentally altering your ability to contribute, but having 14 spells plus is nothing but a minor shadow of potential... I honestly don't know what to say. The dismissal of the wizard's overwhelming advantage on a day to day basis, in favor of their being a situation where over a week the sorcerer might be able to get perfect information and tailor themselves to match it is just mind boggling to me.

 

[Mistwell]

I really do like the option someone in this thread proposed that they let a wizard swap one spell per short rest.

THAT will go a long way to restoring their versatility.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I really do like the option someone in this thread proposed that they let a wizard swap one spell per short rest.

THAT will go a long way to restoring their versatility.

Sure, go ahead and do it. No one is stopping you. It just isn't an official rule.