D&D General DM Authority

Which, because I mentioned you had a pattern in your responses, are only needed when a Bad Faith player comes to the table.

But, Bad Faith GMs should not be discussed, because no one here is talking about them.

You do you. I don't think it's a big issue for a DM to disagree with a player about how a specific rule works and to let them know how they run it both for consistency and balance.

Reasonable people can come to different conclusions given the same input. If they didn't we wouldn't need Sage Advice.
 

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Well, to take the other side here, there are a pretty large number of players who really actively don't want to be quite that involved. I understand the idea that they can make running the game harder, but nudging them toward doing more is often working against their natural personalities and what they want to be doing at the game table, and I don't think you're going to get too far with those.

As an example, I know people who are nonconfrontational enough who, if they're forced to resolve their own disagreements with others at the table, will just give in. Virtually every time. They find that more acceptable than dealing with other people in anything resembling a confrontation.

As another, there are absolutely people who go to a game to, as I put it "Look for their chalk marks." They want to roleplay their characters, but they really don't want to do a lot of active decision making about what direction they need to go in what they're doing or anything similar. They're cheerfully happy to have another player do it rather than a GM, but they don't want to do it themselves. Hell, some days I'm that way myself.

I totally understand that to a certain degree that's just how some people are. We're not good gaming fits.

I also have experience with players who want to take a more active role, but lack the confidence to do so. I know it took me a long time to find other people I could be comfortable playing with confidence around. I have seen the negative reinforce that occurs in a lot of groups towards standing out in anyway. I have been there as a player and seen players blossom when the given chance to do so.
 

Why then would you want to claim an authority which to use is morally wrong?

That a DM could do something morally wrong is not a good thing, but you seem to want to defend the right they have to exercise just that authority.
Yep.

And then, in the highly unlikely event a DM ever does exercise that authority, I'll base my response on the specifics of the case at the time: I might agree, I might not agree, or I might not care.
That you would do so is rather beside the point that other people have done so.

And since they have, and it worked, then it logical to then put forth that a DM is not strictly neccessary to run the monsters. Because, sometimes, people let the Players run the monsters.
Asking people for individual answers to a question and then complaining when this individual's answer doesn't speak of situations not my own isn't cricket, old boy. Try again.
Why is saying the game belongs to the entire group a deal breaker for you?
Because the game, in the end, usually* belongs to the DM. She's put (and continues to put) the effort and prep in, she's done the legwork, she's not only driving the bus but is also its mechanic and - often - purchaser.

And if the game she wants to run isn't to anyone else's tastes (which, in a group of friends who already know each other, is rather unlikely), then she's out of luck.

* - I'll except pick-up games, one-offs, and some AL games here: pick-ups and one-offs because they tend to grow out of a group sitting around and deciding what to play for the night and who will DM; AL games because the DM has to answer to a higher authority, that being the AL organizers.
Considering we just proved that you can run DnD without a DM, something you flat out admitted was possible, then how can you turn around and say that "yes, you cannot run DnD without a DM"
I probably should have put the word 'worthwhile' in there somewhere.
So the players need to know every houserule, every public knowledge detail and all of that months before the game?
Not at all. Merely a few weeks before intended puck-drop, when I approach them individually with this material and invite them to play if they find the material interesting and-or agreeable.
No, that is when you start making things, but that isn't when the players are informed of them.

I guess if you do a whole bunch of pre-session zero talking, that is when these things might come up, but seeing "the dice hit the table" and realizing you probably have everyone roll their stats... a player might roll stats that inspires them to play a paladin during session 0. Being a paladin they would want to be part of a holy order.

Do you honestly restrict them to a specific and limited group of potential holy orders, with no input from them at all?
First off, yes: stats are rolled here, end of story.

If someone rolls stats that allow for a Paladin and wants to play one, I'll direct the player to the deities chart that shows which deities support Paladins (Paladins are as divine as Clerics and based out of temples, I've never done the separate Paladin-holy-order thing; and a non-divine Paladin would be a Cavalier instead) and the player can either pick a deity then - which would determine which culture the PC is of - or can wait until determining culture/background and then revisit the deities list and pick at that point.
 

Which, because I mentioned you had a pattern in your responses, are only needed when a Bad Faith player comes to the table.
Not necessarily. A player might have the very best of intentions yet still mess something up rules-wise, be it intentionally or not; and the DM has to sort it out.
 


Which, because I mentioned you had a pattern in your responses, are only needed when a Bad Faith player comes to the table.

But, Bad Faith GMs should not be discussed, because no one here is talking about them.

Yes, some people act in bad faith. A DM has to deal with it. Sometimes they do it knowingly, sometimes without realizing it. Other times it's just because reasonable people can come to different conclusions.

If you ever want to have a conversation without making naughty word up, let me know.
 

Given that Sage Advice sometimes comes to bizarre conclusions that leave nobody happy, and has been doing so since the early days of Dragon magazine, I'm not sure I'd want to rely on it as an arbiter. :)

Yeah, I definitely take it with a dose of salt and then decide how I'm going to rule at my table. Which ... let's face it is just another place where reasonable people can disagree and sometimes a ruling needs to be made.
 

Given that Sage Advice sometimes comes to bizarre conclusions that leave nobody happy, and has been doing so since the early days of Dragon magazine, I'm not sure I'd want to rely on it as an arbiter. :)
True.

I think the real value of SA is seeing how those on official capacity rule on things and thinking about why they ruled how they did. From there, it gives you an informed opinion as to how you rule on such issues whether you use their ruling or make your own.
 

I could point to several games I have played and several more that I have watched and a lot of conversations on these forums that would tell me that I am right.
Okay. My own personal experience and many threads on many forums lead me to believe the opposite. How would we prove who's right? Hard data? As far as I know there is none and/or it would be impossible to get said data. So it's just our personal opinions. So then I guess we will simply continue to disagree, at least I will until such time as you can prove your personal opinion by providing hard data.
So.. because most people will continue doing a thing means... what exactly? You admit it is possible, so why can't we discuss doing it.
That's what's this thread is about isn't it? I'm not sure why you think people will agree with your position simply because you told them about it. Personally, I will continue to run games like D&D the way they were designed to be run, with the DM having authority over the game.
 

Given that Sage Advice sometimes comes to bizarre conclusions that leave nobody happy, and has been doing so since the early days of Dragon magazine, I'm not sure I'd want to rely on it as an arbiter. :)
Yep. I want my Paladin punchinator. But SA says no. But I say yes. This is my game. So I have my punchinator anyway. But everyone should have a punchinator. Absolutely everyone!
 

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