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D&D 5E Could a Sorcerer with a 1 Wizard dip fulfill everything unique about a wizard?

auburn2

Adventurer
Yeah, well I was assuming that the reason you chose barbarian is because they have evasion. Which we have established they don't in 5e. The situation you describe is one I have only seen in real-time-with-pause computer games. It's generally easy enough to aim a fireball in PnP.
Not really and it is not just one player, you can bring a fireball down right on top of the party and not damage yourself. It is far easier to hit AOE spells on multiple enemies with an invoker.
I know. And if you are a diviner wizard you can't be an evoker, or abjurer, or a scribe. One trick ponies have one trick.
That is one of their tricks, just like the sorcerer examples you gave are one of a sorcerer's or subclasses or metamagic tricks.

Every one of these Wizard examples gets a feature at 2nd, 6th, 10th and 14th level and that is on top of having other wizard bonuses like more spells prepared than a sorcerer, more spells known than a sorcerer, rituals, arcane recovery, replacing a cantrip every day and at high levels signature spells and spell mastery.

Yeah, he can, using his level 6 Bastion of Law feature.
It is not even close to SOD. At most Bastion of law can prevent 5d8 (which is 23 points of damage) per casting, that costs 5 sorcery points and he has to take an action and do it ahead of time before getting hit. So he goes into round 1 and does this and the enemy hits him for 20hp damage (which is absorbed), now it is his second turn and he is in the same place he was to start except he has 5 less SPs. Oh and at 6th level that is almost all of them ... ok at 10th level he can do it twice, so on his third turn in combat he has done nothing and is down 10 SPs and eliminated ~46 points of damage. A 10th level bladesinger goes in with a Virtiolic sphere the first two turns and uses reactions to knock out damage. Going into round 3 she has kept 50hp off herself and has already done 75 points of damage to the enemy and she still has many more slots to reduce any further damage she takes in the battle .... oh and she gains one of the 5th level slots back on a short rest.
 
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Third level or higher, the damage swap allows you to match the damage type with a spell of the slot used to cast the spell. Kind of a moot point when it comes to slashing though since the wizard only has 2nd level spells that deal slashing. The only reason I can think of for them to want to deal slashing is to bypass fire resistance, but since you can do that with all the other damage types you don't really need to have slashing as an option.
"The latter spell must be of the same level as the spell slot you expend."
-Tasha's


So, in order to do slashing damage with a fireball, you must know a 3rd level spell (or higher if you upcast your fireball) that does slashing damage. And, so far as I know, there aren't any.

I agree, it's mostly irrelevant, you should be able to find some damage type your target isn't immune/resistant to amongst your 3rd level spells.

The utility of this power is very much tied to the scribe's ability to have lots of spells in their spellbook.
 
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auburn2

Adventurer
So, in order to do slashing damage with a fireball, you must know a 3rd level spell (or higher if you upcast your fireball) that does slashing damage. And, so far as I know, there aren't any.
I don't think the part I underlined above is actually correct. I don't have my manual with me because I am at a hotel, but I think the actual verbiage is "...... you must know a spell of the slot level or higher where the damage type appears ...."


"Appears" is different than "does" that damage type. The spell I have seen used for this is stone skin (which has all three weapon types of damage), but I am sure there are others where slashing damage appears, most notably animate objects and various summon spells.

Using your interpretation would severely nerf the feature and the whole class. You get abjuration spells like absorb elements, protection from energy, stoneskin etc to get as many options as possible at every level. That is central to the build.
 
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Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
Really, the wizard's entire benefits are basically in their spellbook. A spellbook that any character can get at level 1.

Not really -- a number of the spell school abilities are also really good, such as the divination wizard's Portent ability, gained at level 2. If your Portent dice roll high, you can use them on spell attack rolls or concentration checks, and if they roll low (which I think is better), you can use them for enemy saving throws versus your spells.

Some other useful abilities are the conjuration wizard's class ability not to need to roll concentration checks on damage when concentrating on conjuration school spells, or the transmutation wizard's Philosopher's Stone. YMMV, of course, but yeah, I definitely would not say that "the wizard's entire benefits are basically in their spell book".

Another point, however, is that sorcerers are full casters and dipping into the wizards do not interfere with their spell slot acquisition rate. The only thing that is reduced is sorcerer points and the higher level spell known that you would've gotten.

A sorcerer doesn't gain any new spells known when advancing as a wizard, though does get a spell book with a number of 1st level spells, as otherwise explained elsewhere in this thread. Up to you as to whether a bunch of 1st level spells is better than the higher-level spell you would have gotten going up a level of sorcerer.

However, taking this dip at, say, level 7 lets you put all your spells known into scrolls which can then be put into your spellbook. This lets you "forget" the spells on level up without actually forgetting them, they're now wizard spells.

This is more limited than you believe it is -- sorcerers don't prepare spells, so when preparing spells, you use the wizard rules for preparing spells, and you prepare them as a wizard of your wizard level, not as a wizard of your character level. For starters, this means a Sor7/Wiz1 only prepares a number of spells equal to that character's Int bonus plus one. So even if the spell book shenanigans work the way you describe, a 16 Int multi-classed wizard could prepare just 4 spells from that book, which is a far cry from 'all of your spells known'. And unless you're using a system other than point-buy for your starting stats, I have a hard time believing that your primary sorcerer has better than a 16 Int at level 8, unless you're deliberately gimping yourself as a sorcerer to do so (or were lucky enough to find a Headband of Intellect, but even that only gives you one more spell).

Also, this isn't Third Edition any more, and 5E wizards don't get Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat -- if your DM allows you to create spell scrolls as a downtime activity, you can do this even if you're not a wizard. Note as well that the rules for copying a spell scroll into a spell book require you to make the DC 10 + spell level Intelligence (Arcana) check every time you want to copy a scroll (DMG, pp. 200-201), and the scroll is consumed regardless of whether you succeed or fail at the check. (This is one of those situations where the divination wizard's Portent ability would actually come in handy...)

A sorcerer also gets the ability to add spells to their overall list via spellbooks and scrolls external to their character. That way, if a sorcerer feels like they don't have enough, the DM is free to give them more.
That's not exactly how it works, either -- having a spell in a wizard spell book doesn't make the spell a sorcerer class spell, but that's not really necessary either, since the character is also a wizard and thus has all the wizard spells as class spells by default. (Yes, even spells that aren't in the wizard's spell book are still wizard class spells if they are on the wizard class spell list.)

--
Pauper
 

Asisreo

Patron Badass
I am very surprised I am still getting replied to in this thread.

To be clear, I researched further and I came to the same conclusion as those that replied to me that a sorcerer cannot prepare spells higher than 1st levels in their spellbook as a 1 lvl dip in wizard and they're better served with the Ritual Caster feat.

It was just to spark some discussions about the nature of RAW and whether there might have been some unresolved loopholes involved.
 

I don't think the part I underlined above is actually correct. I don't have my manual with me because I am at a hotel, but I think the actual verbiage is "...... you must know a spell of the slot level or higher where the damage type appears ...."
/
I do have my book, and I copy pasted from it.

Whether or not word "appears" means what you state - personally I very much doubt that is the intent - there is no "or higher" in the text. The spell substituted must be of exactly the same level as the slot used. So even if your DM buys your rules-lawyering and allows "mentioned in the body text" as "appears", you could only do slashing damage if you cast your fireball using a 4th level spell slot.

Note that on D&D Beyond spells have searchable "damage type" listed. Stone Skin does not have a damage type. As Per D&D beyond, slashing damage wizard spells are Cloud of Daggers and Magic Weapon, both level 2.
 
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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I don't think the part I underlined above is actually correct. I don't have my manual with me because I am at a hotel, but I think the actual verbiage is "...... you must know a spell of the slot level or higher where the damage type appears ...."


"Appears" is different than "does" that damage type. The spell I have seen used for this is stone skin (which has all three weapon types of damage), but I am sure there are others where slashing damage appears, most notably animate objects and various summon spells.

Using your interpretation would severely nerf the feature and the whole class. You get abjuration spells like absorb elements, protection from energy, stoneskin etc to get as many options as possible at every level. That is central to the build.
I certainly wouldn't let that work. I'm sure the intent is for a spell to do the damage, not just talk about it or defend against it.

This is what the book says, "...you can temporarily replace its damage type with a type that appears in another spell in your spellbook..."

Stoneskin doesn't have a damage type in it. It mentions damage types, but a spell has to do damage to have a damage type. You'd need to know a spell that does slashing damage like Alter Self or Cloud of Daggers. Those are only 2nd level, though.
 

Ironically, the reverse is more true: A wizard with 3 or 4 levels of Sorcerer does pretty much everything a Sorc is good at. The spell level cap is probably not worth it. Also, from observation, a sorc with 2 levels of Warlock is a better warlock than a lot of warlocks.
 



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