D&D 5E RIP alignment

[overgeeked]

Yup. I'd wager there while removing racist stereotypes is a big part of this push, there is an equally large part that grew up on World of Warcraft and want carte-blanche to play cute gobbos, meaty orcs, and sexy drow without the stigma of playing a "monster" race. The line between what PC races and monstrous humanoids is gone: drow, orc, goblin PCs are now going to be as common as elves, dwarves and halflings.

For the record, you have that backwards, at least with me. I started playing D&D around 1984. Wanted to play the “monster” humanoids from about week 2 of playing on. I remember wanting to play orcs, goblins, and drow. DM brother said no. A few years later (and to this day) his favorite character was Drizzt. It was because I couldn’t regularly play “monster” humanoids in D&D that I eventually picked up WoW. And played all the “monsters” I could.

Besides, humans are boring. I am one in real life. I want to play something else. Not a short and happy human (halfling), not a short and grumpy human (dwarf), and not a short/tall pointy-eared human (elf). I’d much rather play a satyr, changeling, warforged, orc, goblin, bullywug, tortle, minotaur, svirfneblin, or any one of a few dozen more. They’re infinitely more interesting.

 

[overgeeked]

Those don't tell me squat. Loyal and violent? Okay. Captain America or Harley Quinn? No clue. Greedy, opportunistic? Okay, stock market guy who nonetheless is a good guy or someone who is going to mug me in a dark alley because they can get away with it?

Well there’s your problem. You think stock market types can be good. You have more to worry about than D&D alignment.

 

[overgeeked]

Do people really have such terrible difficulty running creatures and monsters in all the other non-D&D games that don't use alignment? How do y'all normally manage when alignment isn't part of a creature's description in these other games?

They do it fine. It’s just a quick and easy argument to make against changing anything.

 

[overgeeked]

False Equivalences are false. First, I've never met anyone who did miss those things, but I've met lots who like alignment a lot. Second, those things were never, EVER, sacred cows that were a core part of the game like alignment is.

The difference between “some old rule we dropped” and “sacred cow” is the former was dropped while the latter was kept. The only reason alignment is a sacred cow now is because it was kept. It’s not awesome or core to the game. It’s just old and tired. It’s a bad shorthand that is an easy excuse to continue using racist fantasy tropes. Good riddance when it’s gone.

 

[Imaculata]

It’s a bad shorthand that is an easy excuse to continue using racist fantasy tropes. Good riddance when it’s gone.

That seems a bit of an exaggeration. Have you even used alignments before?

There's nothing wrong with having irredeemable evil creatures in a fantasy product. We don't cry racism when Mario's King Koopa is called evil. He is a fictional character! His only role in the story is to be an opposing force for Mario.

And do we really need to stop and have a debate about ethics every time Mario stomps a goomba's head in?

The purpose of D&D's alignment system, is to easily place characters and creatures on a simplified moral spectrum. They don't have to be defined by their assigned alignment, but it is not a crime to try and put them in a simple category of the moral spectrum.

 

[Parmandur]

I certainly never expected to see any Planescape products in the future. But then I didn't expect a Ravenloft setting so I guess I'm not exactly the Amazing Kreskin.

Really? I expect a Planescape product within the next year and a half, given all the Sigil bits they keep dropping in books.

 

[Faolyn]

if we get rid of alignment, classes and several other traditions, my concern is that it won’t “feel like” D&D to some. And it may not be a big deal if they are solely focused on younger players.

What makes you think they're getting rid of classes?

 

[R_J_K75]

Idiots have been misunderstanding and ignoring alignment since the beginning.

People have been convincing themselves that their interpretation of alignment is the only correct one since the beginning too.

 

[Oofta]

Well there’s your problem. You think stock market types can be good. You have more to worry about than D&D alignment.

Neutral perhaps? I mean, those people that continue to call me to extend my car warranty are evil incarnate, but they [stock brokers] don't necessarily kick puppies just because they can.

 

[Umbran]

For a particular GM, alignment can be a useful shorthand.

For discussion or understanding of matters between GMs, or across the player base more broadly, however, it has amply demonstrated its weaknesses. The fact this thread even exists is solid evidence of that.

Alignment, then, is a local, per-table phenomenon, not really a larger one. Discussion that ignores this very basic empirical point are unlikely to be constructive.