D&D 5E Comparing Monk DPR

[Stalker0]

I'm tempted to make Stunning Strike be 1/round, and impose disadvantage if you triggered it on a critical hit.

what I did for my alt monk was give him d8 unarmed strikes (with flurry and the bonus attack still using martial arts die). So no more quarter staff problems.

I then changed the stun to once per round, but at no ki cost.

and lastly made patient defense a reaction, so it stacks with other ki uses and the monk can use it when they know they need it as opposed to guessing

 

[Mort]

what I did for my alt monk was give him d8 unarmed strikes (with flurry and the bonus attack still using martial arts die). So no more quarter staff problems.

I like that - makes the monk less dependent on one weapon.

I then changed the stun to once per round, but at no ki cost.

That's interesting - it's medium nerf but a huge boost all in one. It takes away the monk novaing to take away all legendary resistance or to near guaranty stun while keeping the ability intact.

and lastly made patient defense a reaction, so it stacks with other ki uses and the monk can use it when they know they need it as opposed to guessing

I like this best of all. Patient defense is just too risky otherwise - since you give up an attack or a flurry for it.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Comparing Monk as a DPR class shows a bit of a misunderstanding of the role of the class. It's like wondering why the bard isn't doing as much damage as the fighter. If you're trying to evaluate a controller vs. damage dealers by damage dealt it is not surprising that it comes up short.

Monks do damage, but their class focus in combat isn't around do the most damage. It's about superior mobility to get to valuable targets, and to shut them down. That they do reasonable compared the the baseline, but they also have important non-damage components in a combat.

TL;DR: You can't use solely damage to evaluate the monk. That will lead you to false conclusions.

I think this is the wrong way to look at it. People have been asking for Bruce Lee for decades, not a fast controller.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

While this is true, it's extremely resource intensive. Stunning Strike is a CON save, a high save for many monsters - so it often takes A LOT of Ki to lock something down.

I wonder if anyone has done a decent analysis on stun chance among a wide range of monsters?

Also, if what most people want from the monk is damage, then stunning strike shouldn’t be such a signature ability.

So, what would a good replacement be, as an optional variant?

Or perhaps, let level 5 be like level 2, and you get 3 abilities? Stunning Strike, soemthing explorative, and soemthing DPR related? How would an ability that adds your Prof mod to damage against the target until the end of your next turn work out?

Or perhaps wait until level 11ish for the damage boost feature? Maybe add Wisdom mod to damage from level 11 on, or upgrade flurry of blows to 3 attacks, and then 4 at level 17?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

what I did for my alt monk was give him d8 unarmed strikes (with flurry and the bonus attack still using martial arts die). So no more quarter staff problems.

I then changed the stun to once per round, but at no ki cost.

and lastly made patient defense a reaction, so it stacks with other ki uses and the monk can use it when they know they need it as opposed to guessing

I really like those changes.

Would 1/turn stun be too much? Perhaps as a later upgrade?

I like Patient Defense as a Reaction, and I’d add that it could still use a boost later on, so that 1/round if an attack misses with disadvantage against you, you can attack the loser that tried to hit you.

 

[Mort]

I really like those changes.

Would 1/turn stun be too much? Perhaps as a later upgrade?

I like Patient Defense as a Reaction, and I’d add that it could still use a boost later on, so that 1/round if an attack misses with disadvantage against you, you can attack the loser that tried to hit you.

Another good change IMO (I think I saw this upthread somewhere) Would be to allow deflect missiles to be spread among missiles throughout the round instead of just one missile. So (for example) a 5th level monk could deflect 1d10 +8 to 10 (depending on dex) worth of missile damage for the round, otherewise damage (especially at low levels) tends to be wasted.

 

[Blue]

I think this is the wrong way to look at it. People have been asking for Bruce Lee for decades, not a fast controller.

Not relevant. It is a fast controller. Boosting it to Bruce Lee damage while keeping all of that is over powered.

If you want just damage, you aren't looking at a boost, you're looking at a redesign of the class focus. Make a new class - maybe even one that multiclasses nicely with the existing monk so people can mix and match.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Another good change IMO (I think I saw this upthread somewhere) Would be to allow deflect missiles to be spread among missiles throughout the round instead of just one missile. So (for example) a 5th level monk could deflect 1d10 +8 to 10 (depending on dex) worth of missile damage for the round, otherewise damage (especially at low levels) tends to be wasted.

Interesting, perhaps the simplest way to go would be to make it “you gain 1d10+dex+monk level THP against ranger weapon attacks”? Or would the idea be that you could spread it out how you want, perhaps taking a few points off each attack?

Another way to go, IMO, is combine it with Patient Defense, making it “give disadvantage to all attacks” as a reaction and 1/round if an attack misses you can return it, throwing the missile if a ranger attack or simply counterattacking otherwise.

Combine that with 1/turn Stun, and you can counter stun sometimes, which is rad but not OP.

 

[Stormonu]

Personally, I think if someone wanted to build a “Bruce Lee” character, it should be doable with the Fighter (or perhaps Rogue), not the monk - but D&D has structured the unarmed combat rules in a way that it is just simply impossible to effectively build an unarmed fighter without using monk.

 

[Mort]

Interesting, perhaps the simplest way to go would be to make it “you gain 1d10+dex+monk level THP against ranger weapon attacks”? Or would the idea be that you could spread it out how you want, perhaps taking a few points off each attack?

Another way to go, IMO, is combine it with Patient Defense, making it “give disadvantage to all attacks” as a reaction and 1/round if an attack misses you can return it, throwing the missile if a ranger attack or simply counterattacking otherwise.

Combine that with 1/turn Stun, and you can counter stun sometimes, which is rad but not OP.

Ok that does seem a bit clunky. Maybe keep deflect missiles as a reaction (as is).

- But if the monk uses Patient defense as a reaction (so 1 Ki) they ALSO roll deflect missiles and get that many temp HP against ranged attacks while patient defense is up. Kind of the monk entering a seriously defensive stance. Still a bit clunky - but it's a start.