D&D (2024) bring back the pig faced orcs for 6th edition, change up hobgoblins & is there a history of the design change

[Oofta]

I think the issue with any generically evil creature (let's call them Blargs) is that at some point someone is going to start identifying with them because Blargs are outcasts from normal society that are feared and some people feel like they don't fit in. Then they want to play a Blarg so we come up with stats. The next thing you know, it's a bad thing that Blargs are a representation of people that are prejudiced against. Since we can no longer have generically evil Blargs we come up with something completely different called Blurgs. The cycle continues.

So I don't think we can change this. For some people having a generic bad guy monster that someone can identify with will be considered wrong. Other people just want something for generic bad guys.

For me? It's just a game and I think people read too much into this. I just finished playing Half-Life Alyx after getting a new VR headset (awesome game by the way) and I have no qualms about mowing down the enemy in this or any other video game I've ever played. Is that over-simplified, not realistic? Absolutely. It's a game.

In any case, I'm assuming this thread will be shut down soon, but I don't think changing the imagery of orcs or introducing Blargs (humanoid or not) will change anything. I'll just continue using orcs in the role that makes sense for my world.

 

[Istbor]

1) orcs have been becoming more and more human like and its made them less interesting plus like drow they are a future problem for an everchanging society
2) if not maybe a variant
3) the orc name is from "pig faced"

hobgoblin
1) hobgoblins need something . Over the years kobolds, gnolls, bugbears and even goblins have become more interesting. Kobolds became inventors and the design has greatly improved. Same with gnolls. hobgoblins have been dulled down (they are the military/armored slightly stronger goblin) and often get sort of lumped in with orcs (theres nothing that really jumps out about a hobgoblin)
2) I think they need a change-Maybe they are cannibals, maybe they have a unique spell/ability , give them a distinct appearance (I would make them more like the falmer of elder scrolls-scary)

Orcs:
1) Meh, I like them better as they have developed. And frankly, I never even played the game when they were depicted as having pig faces. Just knew it was that way once.
2) I mean sure. If that floats your boat. Honestly, if you like pig faces, just make your orcs have pig faces. Personally, my favorite orcs are ones that run around screaming "Waaaaagh!" and asking if you can make it more choppy, and bring more dakka.
3) Not certain where you are getting this origin? Do you have a source to cite? I would be interested in reading it.

HobGoblins:
1) I will echo really liking their more disciplined roman legion take. That definitely sets them apart from regular Goblins. And when used smartly, they can really surprise players that are only expecting tougher Goblins.
2) I am not sure what change would be needed presently. When I depict them it is as taller, goblinoids with impeccable posture. They carry themselves as professionals and a not-so-subtle whiff of arrogance.

 

[aco175]

I tend to limit the number of bad/monster races running around. I like using goblins or kobolds and hobgoblins or orcs or gnolls. Some depends on where the party it climate-wise. Right now I'm running the Icespire peak box and have orcs and goblins around. There could be a stray bugbear, but not planning on hobgoblins and gnolls. I always figured that the monster races would clash more than the player races and one of those three groups would settle the region. I also tend to place gnolls in more scrub/desert regions and orcs in more hilly/mountains, but for Icespire- they are built in.

I would like to see some more niche for most of these races.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Fizbang the Munificent Mage: So, uh, I traveled back in time.

Gork the Orc: Cool, man.

Fizbang: Yeah, I uh, was wandering around this keep, and got caught up in an adventure ....

Gork: Great!

Fizbang: And I ran into some of your, um, compatriots from back then ....

Gork: ................

Fizbang: They looked a little ... you know ... strange ....

Gork: .................

Fizbang: Anything you wanna tell me, Gork?

Gork: WE DON'T SPEAK ABOUT IT!

Those are hobgoblins though, right?

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I see Orcs as having Human-like noses, but often bigger than Humans in that it's wider or protrudes out more. Often there's a ridge down the middle, and their noses may come to a hook.

Goblins and Hobgoblins I see similarly having bigger more prominent noses than Human do. Bugbears though I see them with flatter noses.

 

[Voadam]

Those are hobgoblins though, right?

Correct.

"Description: The hairy hides of hobgoblins range from dark reddish-brown to gray black. Their faces are bright red-orange to red. Large males will have blue-red noses. Eyes are either yellowish or dark brown. Teeth are yellowed white to dirty yellow. Hobgoblins favor bright, bloody colors and black leather. They keep weapons well polished. Hobgoblins live for 60 years."

 

[Charlaquin]

I love Dungeon Meshi’s design for orcs. “Pig-faced” in a way that looks natural for a humanoid face, rather than going full-on Gamorean. Endomorphic instead of mesomorphic, which fits with the piglike appearance and brings some welcome body diversity to the table. Two-toed. Mottled pink and gray flesh tone. Coarse boar-like fur.

EDIT: Couldn’t get the image to work.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Those are hobgoblins though, right?

If Gork isn't going to talk about the genetic virus that got rid of the pig snouts for Orcs, he SURE isn't going to talk about the Orientalist coding of the old hobgoblins with the pseudo-Samurai attire.

 

[dave2008]

As per the recent UA, hobgoblins seem to be reverting to what they where before Tolkien turned them into GenericSoldiersOfEvil(TM).

Hmm. IIRC, the hobgoblins of Tolkien were specifically not the generic soldiers of evil. The were a cross between a traditional orc and a human to make them stronger in general and specifically in sunlight.

 

[MGibster]

I honestly never used hobgoblins back in the day because I didn't see the point in another generic evil humanoid race. i.e. I didn't fee as though I could do anything with the hobgoblin that I couldn't do just as well with an orc. I welcome the Romanesque hobgoblin of modern times.