D&D 5E Ravenloft Previews of Dementlieu, Lamordia, and Har'Akir

WotC has been sprinkling previews of individual Ravenloft domains to various websites -- including Dementlieu, Lamordia, and Har'Akir. Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is only a couple of weeks away, coming out on May 18th!

Dementlieu​

• Forbes takes a look Dementlieu, which has inspirations like Cinderella, The Masque of the Red Death, and Dark City. "Dementlieu is one of over 30 domains of dread detailed in the book. It’s a sharp contrast to Barovia’s dark forest and looming Gothic castle on a hill. Instead it’s covered in a glamorous sheen of fine clothes and fancy parties. Everyone is dying to be invited to the Grand Masquerade held by Duchess Saidra d’Honaire every week on her private island. And, in many cases, killed if they are discovered at the ball if they’re not supposed to be there."
• Syfy Wire looks at Lamordia, inspired by Frankenstein. "Many of the Domains of Dread are inspired by some horror tale or piece of creepy folklore, and Lamordia definitely has its roots in Frankenstein. But while the Domain is inspired by that classic horror story, its elements are then shot through the lens of D&D adventures and explored to dozens of horrific extremes. Mordenheim's land isn't just about resurrection gone awry, it's also the Domain for all different types of science gone wrong, bizarre experiments, body horror weirdness, and grim tales of society versus a frigid land. Just as there's more to Frankenstein than a scientist who abandoned his child, there's more to Lamordia than stitches and semi-dead flesh."
• Polygon has Har'Akir, an Egyptian-themed domain. "Why is there a Domain that is a desert that is riddled with these ancient, inexplicable haunted monuments and ruined pyramids? How does a Domain like that exist? How does it make sense? To an extent it doesn’t, and it’s going to be the players that come and explore that, who are some of the only people that realize that the entirety of the domain is, to an extent, gaslighting them."

Ankhetop, darklord of Har'Akir

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[Hussar]

The problem isn't "only gay men should play gay characters". That's never been the issue.

The problem is, "NO gay men EVER play gay characters". Gay characters are almost universally played by straight actors. In the same way that Egyptian characters are almost universally played by non-Egyptian, or heck, even vaguely Arabic, actors. Yes, I'm possibly exaggerating here, but, not by much. For every actor that actually "fits" the part, there's many that don't.

"The Stalwart Defender" - is such a stereotype that it's not even funny. And, like you say, the only other "defender" is from England.

And, notice the "greedy" characters. Benni - obviously meant to be an Egyptian stereotype. I mean, good grief, he couldn't be any more of a stereotype is he started singing "Mammy".

It's not like any of this is new. This is just rehashing well known and documented issues with the movie.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Don’t mistake critical for uncharitable. The intent of critical analysis is to understand messages that exist in media, with or without authorial intent. A critical but charitable reading might say something like “here are some problematic implications of this piece of media; they are more likely the result of unconscious biases than active malice,” where an uncharitable critical analysis might say something like “this creator is bigoted because they made this work with these problematic elements.”

I don't know. I think instead of always taking a negative "where is the problematic" approach, there are way more ways to look at things. Sometimes these things are not problematic even though a negative reading could frame them as such, sometimes the intent really matters and totally changes the message (and the message is really what is important, not what you choose to see because you've been trained to always focus on the negative). If these threads are any indication of the value of critical analysis, and I am not saying they are, god help us. Because it really just looks like people have lost the ability to have fun, and don't give creators much benefit of the doubt.

 

[Hussar]

Definitely uncharitable.

• It isn’t for you watching it to claim she was sexual assaulted. That is her right alone.

Wow, that's truly, truly frightening. Only victims of sexual assault can recognize sexual assault? Seriously?

• Imhotep thought she was a reincarnation and wanted his actual love to possess her, not quite the same thing.
• Everybody in that film needs saving from danger... including Brendan a time or two.
• She was looking for a guide because he’d been to Hamunaptra. If he’d have looked like Benni she would have taken him at the same.

Really? You honestly think that they would have made that movie where the hero looked like Benni and he wouldn't have been the villain? Seriously? You don't think that's a trifle naive?

Look, I might not be being terribly charitable here, but, 1, I'm not casting any blame at anyone and 2. I'm not bringing up anything that wasn't brought up before.

Saying the Mummy (in any version) has some culturally insensitive elements is like saying rain is wet. It doesn't meant that anyone who likes the movie (like I do) is a bigot or bad. It doesn't mean that the makers of the film are bad. It doesn't mean anything more than what it says - The Mummy (any version) has culturally insensitive elements that deserve to be recognized and, in a new product using the same baseline stories, like a new D&D setting, those elements probably should be removed from the product if the company making that product is serious about it's efforts at being inclusive.

 

[Hussar]

I don't know. I think instead of always taking a negative "where is the problematic" approach, there are way more ways to look at things. Sometimes these things are not problematic even though a negative reading could frame them as such, sometimes the intent really matters and totally changes the message (and the message is really what is important, not what you choose to see because you've been trained to always focus on the negative). If these threads are any indication of the value of critical analysis, and I am not saying they are, god help us. Because it really just looks like people have lost the ability to have fun, and don't give creators much benefit of the doubt.

Because creators don't deserve the "benefit of the doubt" and intent doesn't matter. I'm sorry, but, it doesn't. "Oh, I didn't meant to be bigoted and racist when I created this caricature character (like Benni) that embodies every single negative stereotype of an Egyptian person in one character and put him in the story" doesn't really justify anything.

At the end of the day, you're arguing in favor of racism. No matter the intent. You are arguing that racism in the game is fun, and therefore we should just gloss over it and not talk about it, the way we did for decades. Is that really the position you want to take?

Note, I'm not "always focusing on the negative". I'm fully in favor of including this setting in the game. The game could very much use settings that aren't yet another Tolkien rehash of pre-industrial England. Totally see the value in this. OTOH, I'm not going to whitewash history just because it's uncomfortable or "fun".

 

[TheSword]

The problem isn't "only gay men should play gay characters". That's never been the issue.

The problem is, "NO gay men EVER play gay characters". Gay characters are almost universally played by straight actors. In the same way that Egyptian characters are almost universally played by non-Egyptian, or heck, even vaguely Arabic, actors. Yes, I'm possibly exaggerating here, but, not by much. For every actor that actually "fits" the part, there's many that don't.

"The Stalwart Defender" - is such a stereotype that it's not even funny. And, like you say, the only other "defender" is from England.

And, notice the "greedy" characters. Benni - obviously meant to be an Egyptian stereotype. I mean, good grief, he couldn't be any more of a stereotype is he started singing "Mammy".

It's not like any of this is new. This is just rehashing well known and documented issues with the movie.

Benni is Hungarian in the film. You’re definitely exaggerating, I’m not sure why. Oded Feyr and Omid Djalili were great in that film.

Can you name another film in which an Egyptian Stalwart defender exists to back up your claim that it’s a stereotype of Egyptian characters.

You have to actually demonstrate racism. It isn’t enough to cry racist and not back that up. Just like claiming the lead female character is a sexist representation because she knocks over bookshelves.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Because creators don't deserve the "benefit of the doubt" and intent doesn't matter. I'm sorry, but, it doesn't. "Oh, I didn't meant to be bigoted and racist when I created this caricature character (like Benni) that embodies every single negative stereotype of an Egyptian person in one character and put him in the story" doesn't really justify anything.

Intent is incredibly important. And everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, especially if we are being critical of their work. I am not saying you have to love everything under the sun (lord knows I have been critical of many of the design choices for new Ravenloft), but you do need to try to figure out what someone was actually trying to say with something, and to understand something in its context as well. What you are losing is the ability to discern between something like a racist diatribe and a trope that could be viewed different ways by different people. Some things are always going to be bad, no matter the intent. Some things are going to be very dependent on the intention behind them. And some things will fall into a gray area. But this constant self flagellation and flagellation of anyone who dares to make something, is really getting tiring. You are not a good person just because you can announce to the world you found bad tropes in something. If you want to be a good person, go out into the world and treat people nice and with kindness. More often than not, I see people taking these kinds of arguments to be cruel to people online. Many of the posts in these threads by posters like yourself have been filled with venom and snark. At this point it just seems like a lot of people are using this as an excuse for their own desire to bully and be cruel

 

[Bedrockgames]

At the end of the day, you're arguing in favor of racism. No matter the intent. You are arguing that racism in the game is fun, and therefore we should just gloss over it and not talk about it, the way we did for decades. Is that really the position you want to take?

No I am not. Stop putting words in peoples mouths. The arrogance of this post is beyond absurd. Now you are just lying about what I am saying.

 

[TheSword]

Wow, that's truly, truly frightening. Only victims of sexual assault can recognize sexual assault? Seriously?

No, that’s a corkscrewing of my words. You don’t claim someone’s future husband sexually assaulted them when they first met when they kissed. That’s the recipients decision not yours. Kissing a person without their express permission might be sexual assault. Only they decide if it is or not.

Yet again more hyperbole.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Note, I'm not "always focusing on the negative". I'm fully in favor of including this setting in the game. The game could very much use settings that aren't yet another Tolkien rehash of pre-industrial England. Totally see the value in this. OTOH, I'm not going to whitewash history just because it's uncomfortable or "fun".

Your side is trying to white wash history by eliminating any trope that has a whiff of the problematic. I am all for understanding history and understanding things in their historical context. But history isn't black and white. I that a lot of gray and a lot of nuance, and it isn't always as simple as 'these are the nazis' and 'these are the allies'. By all means, understand the atrocities of the past, lord knows there have been plenty of them. But also understand you aren't better simply because you had the good luck to be born in a later time, in a wealthy nation, and, presumably, had the benefit of an excellent education. And more than that, having the benefit of those things, isn't a license to crap on people who don't (and a lot of the people enjoying these things innocently, without malice, simply don't have your background in critical analysis).

 

[TheSword]

Anyway. This is so off topic now, it’s in the long grass. I’m out. Sleep well.