D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll

[Maxperson]

Cantrips were alraedy discussed and brought up. They are the only exception to that. Every other non-cantrip using class can't do it's stuff all day (save rogue - the only truly at will class in the game).

Cantrips are the casters basic attack. The don't get multiple attacks, so their cantrip damage scales with level about as often as fighters get bonus attacks. The difference is that there are also utility cantrips like Light, which martials don't get.

 

[FrogReaver]

Maybe, but the martial can do it pretty effectively in an antimagic zone or against an opponent with better counterspell capabilities.

Sure. I think there's a reason anti-magic zones exist and not anti-martial zones.

I don't really think it's worth bringing up specific exceptions where some particular class doesn't work well. There's plenty of that to go around for everyone.

Also, what happens if I (as DM) say that forcecage doesn't exist in my campaign world? I could ban longswords without unduly inconveniencing fighters.

Any what if ruling could impact either very badly.

I mean, it's a decent argument that forcecage might be OP. It doesn't prove that casters are though.

You can do a similar thing with 2 casters, one using wall of force and the other using sickening radiance. Martials don't get that kind of power or synergy.

 

[FrogReaver]

Cantrips are the casters basic attack. The don't get multiple attacks, so their cantrip damage scales with level about as often as fighters get bonus attacks. The difference is that there are also utility cantrips like Light, which martials don't get.

Okay, and your point is?

 

[Maxperson]

Okay, and your point is?

Spellcasters can be spellcasters at will. It's just that they can only do small things like Light most of the time, unless they are in combat.

 

[FrogReaver]

Spellcasters can be spellcasters at will. It's just that they can only do small things like Light most of the time, unless they are in combat.

Any my point was that this was originally stated and covered by me. You are coming in on the tail end of this conversation and missing important context.

 

[ECMO3]

There's no martial that can single handily and safely kill nearly any enemy that can fit in a 10x10 ft box. Or 20ft cage (without teleportation).
***By casting sickening radiance and forcecage.

A forcecage blocks any spells cast into it

 

[FrogReaver]

A forcecage blocks any spells cast into it

So cast the sickening radiance first and have someone else slow said enemy and/or push it back into it and then cast forcecage. Or use the cage version (on non-teleporting enemies) which doesn't have that limitation...

 

[ECMO3]

My group tends to have alot of 1 encounter days. Unless you make a wizard or something that specializes in friendly AOE blasting - like an evoker wizard with fireball, the martials tend to keep up very well. After the casters have dropped their first concentration spell there's not nearly as much left for them to do. Magic Missile is okay - but doesn't keep up with the Paladins in the party. Blindness Deafness can be solid. Fighters are a little lack luster in this style of combat - but not terrible - especially if you ever get a half decent magic weapon. Rogues are much worse off, but they make up for it by being skilled in out of combat stuff for everything but this 1 combat.

A battle master is going to have a lot to use on a 1-encounter day. So will an EK or an AT. Honestly a Rogue has a lot he can do in any fight as most of their subclasses have a unique always on ability with a combat use.

AT is the king of these with his mage hand. Every turn he can get in his own attack, usually with SA and his hand either pulls something out of his pack (vial of acid/holy water/oil/poision, caltrops, ball bearings), deploys what he pulled out last turn, or tries to take something from the enemy with SOH. The best is lifting the enemies component pouch or spell focus if he is not holding it. It is like a counterspell only it lasts the entire battle.

 

[Undrave]

What about a warlord says he has to do things like that every single round? Can’t there be a few rounds he simply attacks with his weapon?

Every class gets to BE their class all the time every day in some shape or form. They have the CHOICE to be that.

The Barbarian gets Unarmored Defense forever, and at level 2 they could Reckless Attack ALL the time if they so choose.
Casters get cantrips they can do forever.
Rogues can sneak attack all day and can use cunning action and expertise all the time.
Fighters get their Fighting Style
Monks can do that bonus attack punch all the time and get their bonus damage to unarmed attack and their unarmored defense...

Granted, the Rangers and Paladins are a bit outliers in that sense. A Paladin doesn't have any 'always on' abilities until they get a Fighting style at level 2 (at which point, now, they could get cantrips!). Rangers have 'always on' abilities but they're rather lacklustre... but they get their favored terrain all the time and a Fighting style at level 2.

The Battlemaster doesn't get to be a Warlord all the time. They get two rounds a fight, usually. They can't CHOOSE to spam their warlordy-ness, they have to conserve it in case some important fight happens later! And anybody who has ever hoarded potions in a video games will tell you... sometimes you hold on to those things for far too long.

You don't need to DO Warlordy stuff all the time to be a Warlord, you just need to be ABLE to if you so choose.

 

[FrogReaver]

Every class gets to BE their class all the time every day in some shape or form. They have the CHOICE to be that.

The Barbarian gets Unarmored Defense forever, and at level 2 they could Reckless Attack ALL the time if they so choose.
Casters get cantrips they can do forever.
Rogues can sneak attack all day and can use cunning action and expertise all the time.
Fighters get their Fighting Style
Monks can do that bonus attack punch all the time and get their bonus damage to unarmed attack and their unarmored defense...

Granted, the Rangers and Paladins are a bit outliers in that sense. A Paladin doesn't have any 'always on' abilities until they get a Fighting style at level 2 (at which point, now, they could get cantrips!). Rangers have 'always on' abilities but they're rather lacklustre... but they get their favored terrain all the time and a Fighting style at level 2.

The Battlemaster doesn't get to be a Warlord all the time. They get two rounds a fight, usually. They can't CHOOSE to spam their warlordy-ness, they have to conserve it in case some important fight happens later! And anybody who has ever hoarded potions in a video games will tell you... sometimes you hold on to those things for far too long.

You don't need to DO Warlordy stuff all the time to be a Warlord, you just need to be ABLE to if you so choose.

If all it takes to count for all day every day is a fighting style then make a leadery fighting style and be done. Now you can be a warlord all day every day.