D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Oofta]

And this is the issue. For all people talk about playing unlikely heroes in D&D or ordinary people they are all D&D PCs. By having a visible physical disadvantage (and one without the known magical might of gnomes) halflings are as close as you get to the appearance being overmatched in D&D without fairly serious reskinning (Lazy Warlord style).

Huh? Halflings work just fine as PCs in my experience. Unless of course you're just saying that you don't want to play a PC that's short.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Huh? Halflings work just fine as PCs in my experience. Unless of course you're just saying that you don't want to play a PC that's short.

I'm not saying they don't - I'm saying they scratch an itch no other race does.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Given that Burning Wheel is a brilliant RPG that has amazingly Tolkien-esque Elves, Dwarves and Orcs, this claim is obviously false. I won't repeat why I think it's a strength of the game that it doesn't feature Hobbits.


It's a romantic one. It's not utterly absurd - some inventions have been the result of lone geniuses. But JRRT's books, the Kalevala, etc aren't conjectures in the sociology of technology. They're fairy stories!

I don't really want Taylorisation, time and motion experts, and research laboratories in my FRPGing. I tend to have plenty of that in my day job - and if I want to explore it as an aspect of RPGing, I might do it in Traveller but not in a FRPG.

So, you want the themes and styles of your game of pretend to have different themes and styles from what I want in my game of pretend??

You monster..

Clearly D&D is not big enough for the both of us.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Given that Burning Wheel is a brilliant RPG that has amazingly Tolkien-esque Elves, Dwarves and Orcs, this claim is obviously false. I won't repeat why I think it's a strength of the game that it doesn't feature Hobbits.


It's a romantic one. It's not utterly absurd - some inventions have been the result of lone geniuses. But JRRT's books, the Kalevala, etc aren't conjectures in the sociology of technology. They're fairy stories!

I don't really want Taylorisation, time and motion experts, and research laboratories in my FRPGing. I tend to have plenty of that in my day job - and if I want to explore it as an aspect of RPGing, I might do it in Traveller but not in a FRPG.

Apologies for the double reply. I wanted to clarify my position, which is that Hobbit-style halfling are "fine" in D&D settings

Not perfect,
Not ideal,
Not necessary,

Fine.

Others have likened their presence in the setting to a discordant melody. But I ask, when the party encounters a halfling settlement, are players taking constant psychic damage from "incongruous" thematics? Does such an encounter trigger critical debates that rage among the players until the halfling elements are excised from the tables' shared fiction?

I would submit that, no, this does not happen.

Instead one player may ask where the tavern is, one may ask if it looks like there are any good shops, and third may ask if anyone in the settlement looks suspicious or interesting... kind of the way you might expect them to interact with any other setting elements you introduce them to.

Or.. your table functions very differently from mine.

 

[Oofta]

I'm not saying they don't - I'm saying they scratch an itch no other race does.

Ah, I was confused. Thanks.

I personally agree. I mean I can play a happy-go-lucky variant human with the lucky feat but it still wouldn't feel the same.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Apologies for the double reply. I wanted to clarify my position, which is that Hobbit-style halfling are "fine" in D&D settings

Not perfect,
Not ideal,
Not necessary,

Fine.

Others have likened their presence in the setting to a discordant melody. But I ask, when the party encounters a halfling settlement, are players taking constant psychic damage from "incongruous" thematics? Does such an encounter trigger critical debates that rage among the players until the halfling elements are excised from the tables' shared fiction?

I would submit that, no, this does not happen.

Instead one player may ask where the tavern is, one may ask if it looks like there are any good shops, and third may ask if anyone in the settlement looks suspicious or interesting... kind of the way you might expect them to interact with any other setting elements you introduce them to.

Or.. your table functions very differently from mine.

We have greater issues with the physics of skeletons moving without muscles than the existence of short hidey farmers.

 

[Chaosmancer]

From the mid-70s to late-80s D&D jelled into a thing with its own mythos. The elves, dwarves, dragons, gods, spellcasting, orcs, goblins, clerics, paladins, druids, barbarians etc...have become their own D&D thing. The DNA of that was in Appendix N of the 1e DMG (there's a thread from last year on a reduced Appendix N that highlights the most obvious ones D&D General - A shorter Appendix N). Those were the ones that most clearly pressed their finger prints into it before the clay started setting. And anything after them might be great fantasy, but it has a higher bar to jump to impact it. Doesn't mean it's not great stuff, but it means it's hard for Harry Potter, or Minecraft, or Percy Jackson, or whatnot to grab a major place in the game. (Edit: And same for older things he hadn't read or borrowed inspiration from).

You know what, that is fair. Things that influence something at creation have a greater impact.

But Appendix N is more than Tolkien isn't it? Tolkien didn't inspire anything in Ravenloft or Darksun. The steampunk and Noir of Eberron doesn't owe anything to Tolkien does it?

And, just because there are things that influenced DnD before the clay had set, doesn't mean that new things aren't also influencing the game. There is not a single time I've seen the Way of Four Elements Monk (as badly designed as it is) discussed without Avatar the Last Airbender being brought up. There are many people who are looking into summoner and beast taming classes and mechanics with the goal of emulating Pokemon and Digimon,

Yes, Tolkien had a massive influence on the game. Saying he is the greatest influence DnD ever had and ever will have? That he is the only influence for the idea of a magical world? That is far too high of praise, and feels like belittling every single work of fantasy media that isn't Lord of the Rings.

 

[Chaosmancer]

He’s still the most popular speculative fiction author of the modern age. His prominence hasn’t gone away with the flood of newer works.

And how are we measuring this? Does this account for Tolkien having a more solid base of fans who introduce their children? Does this account for the movies that caused people to go look for the books, while other fiction rests solely on the strength of the original product?

Heck, does this account for the people brought into fantasy by Dungeons and Dragons who then are told that Tolkien is super important to DnD and they should read him?

Again, Tolkien is great. He is important. He is not the Alpha and the Omega of Fantasy. His work is not the pinnacle of all fantasy writing now and forever. That is what I was taking issue with, this idea that Tolkien is somehow this uniquely good and important work that overshadows everything before and after him because it was that important and that good and nothing else has ever reached that level.

Honestly? Tolkien to my knowledge has inspired exactly zero of my characters. Ever. I have never once tried to make a character thinking about Tolkien. Maybe a few of the archetypes can be traced back to him, I did make an elven archer. But I wasn't trying to make Legolas, I was trying to make an elven archer, and that may find a root in Legolas, but I didn't need to have read Tolkien to have been exposed to that idea. I was actually MORE inspired by the Ranger's Apprentice series and their human characters.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That is what I was taking issue with, this idea that Tolkien is somehow this uniquely good and important work that overshadows everything before and after him because it was that important and that good and nothing else has ever reached that level.

So, once again taking issue with things no one is saying. Okay.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Honestly? Tolkien to my knowledge has inspired exactly zero of my characters. Ever.

This statement needs a “directly” or a “consciously” added to it, to be true.

Tolkein is literally part of the cultural water in which western fantasy fiction fans are swimming. Sea fish know salt water.