D&D General The Problem with Evil or what if we don't use alignments?

[Voadam]

I just don't understand how one alignment could create a language and other alignments couldn't learn to understand it.

And what happens if you change alignment? Do you forget one and instantly learn the other? I ditched that as soon as I read it back during 1e.

A supernatural communication that you have to be in sync with the specific shared cosmic force connection to use. Not being in sync means it is indecipherable white noise.

Alignment connects you with a specific cosmic force throughout the universe and one benefit is communication through that connection. When you switch alignment you are not just changing behavior, you are switching the cosmic forces that you are or are not connected to and can tap into for specific powers.

 

[Maxperson]

A supernatural communication that you have to be in sync with the specific shared cosmic force connection to use. Not being in sync means it is indecipherable white noise.

Alignment connects you with a specific cosmic force throughout the universe and one benefit is communication through that force. When you switch alignment you are not just changing behavior, you are switching the cosmic forces that you are or are not connected to and can tap into for specific powers.

Or else it's just a roleplaying aid.

 

[Aging Bard]

I just don't understand how one alignment could create a language and other alignments couldn't learn to understand it.

Because (my interpretation, of course) alignment languages are about the metaphors and symbolism of the alignment. You can hear the words, but the meanings are not the usual one. Simple example: if I ask you "Are you a sister of the Sun", what does that mean? You might be able to guess, but you probably don't know exactly what is meant by "the Sun". Think Darmok from ST:TNG (Shaka, when the Walls fell!). I treat Druid's Cant the same way, the words and concepts just won't mean anything to a non-druid. Thieves' Cant could be learned, but the problem there is that it changes all the time (to keep it covert) and you need to be active to keep current. Again, just my ideas on how these languages can be justified.

 

[Faolyn]

And what happens if you change alignment? Do you forget one and instantly learn the other? I ditched that as soon as I read it back during 1e.

Yeah. It may work if there were literally gods or cosmic forces that messed around with your memories and knowledge--but that is creepy in a not-fun way and not something I'd want to have done to PCs.

Unless I was doing some sort of Matrix-style campaign, where the PCs start out breaking free of these entities and end up fighting them or their agents.

 

[hopeless]

The more I read these replies the more I'm thinking of playing up the dualities so that each god has their opposing counterpart and what's been witnessed is the Dawnfather faith is gradually falling under the control of the Strife Emperor its alternate identity.
No needs more work, but this gives me ideas I didn't consider before.
Thank you.

 

[Dessert Nomad]

In 5e, alignment is already mostly defunct - it has almost no mechanical effect, and more of the effects is does have are legacy (like items keyed to certain alignments). I generally just use a loose 'good, or evil' idea and the occasional 'only someone good/evil can use this item,' with law and chaos giving an idea of how much you hold to tradition and respect for authority. The vague terms work pretty well; most people's idea of 'good' and 'evil' line up well enough with mine that it's not a big deal. I do this even when running Adventurer's League games that technically use the full alignment rules, because alignment is so mechanically distant that there's no good reason to delve into it beyond the 'no evil characters' rule. The only reason I don't ditch it for my own games is that some people like it, and people who don't like it don't actually have to interact with it.

I also don't think mechanical alignment really holds up well without major supernatural beings backing it, especially the 'law/chaos' axis who's definition is extremely shifty. If you have Elric's world with actual forces of Law and Chaos, you're literally aligned with a Power, and that works fine. But if you're just using alignment in general, I'm not sure what a LG PC in the equivalent of Rome who runs into the equivalent of Spartacus is actually supposed to do to be consistent with both letters in his alignment. If you make alignment a major mechanical part of the game you have to address this and similar arguments (plenty of which have come up in the thread), but if it's just a loose description that mostly doesn't do anything mechanically you avoid that.

 

[Voadam]

The more I read these replies the more I'm thinking of playing up the dualities so that each god has their opposing counterpart and what's been witnessed is the Dawnfather faith is gradually falling under the control of the Strife Emperor its alternate identity.
No needs more work, but this gives me ideas I didn't consider before.
Thank you.

I vaguely remember that Living Imagination's Twin Crowns setting pantheon had a big dualistic aspect to all the gods so the god of wealth had both a law abiding merchant and law breaking thief aspect and each of them could be good or evil and be open to different factions.

 

[Mannahnin]

The more I read these replies the more I'm thinking of playing up the dualities so that each god has their opposing counterpart and what's been witnessed is the Dawnfather faith is gradually falling under the control of the Strife Emperor its alternate identity.
No needs more work, but this gives me ideas I didn't consider before.
Thank you.

I played in a campaign once where there was a war god, Visera, whose church was divided into good and evil factions, based on the noble ideals of protecting the realm or the exalting the brutality of war.

 

[cbwjm]

I don't really worry about alignment, it's enough to know that if you go into a dungeon and fight some orcs, those orcs are the bad guys.

Haven't done the church is secretly evil thing before, I'm not even sure of I've done the church leader is secretly evil before. Some of my gods have twin aspects, the Lady of Poisons is both healer and bringer of disease and some faiths allow one as aspect only. By this I mean that a religion that has the pantheon of the sage, mage, and lady which is focused on knowledge only allows healing side of her to be followed with her adherents focused on medicine and healing. Another religion might follow her darker aspect instead.

 

[Oofta]

I played in a campaign once where there was a war god, Visera, whose church was divided into good and evil factions, based on the noble ideals of protecting the realm or the exalting the brutality of war.

In my campaign world, clerics of pretty much every alignment worship Odin.

Yes, Odin is the god of magic and wisdom, but he's also the god of war and conflict. After his favored son Baldur was killed and Loki was imprisoned, he went a little crazy. Now he thinks more of the coming of Ragnarok than caring for people.

So different factions worship him. Some just like the violence and chaos that come with war, others want him to return to the loving god he once was and so on.

Then again, the gods aren't that strongly tied to alignment, much like people it's just a general descriptor.