D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll

[Zubatcarteira]

Worth noting that the first few rounds had heavy winds that gave disadvantage on ranged attacks, and the enemies had pretty high AC, the action surge round was spent shooting at a guy with 25 AC at disadvantage.

 

[TwoSix]

Paladin was a actually a paladin 9/cleric 6 of peace/redemption (the hippie paladin build). Has a nice aura that adds a d4 to attacks and saves (once a round ) on top of anything else.

Rogue was a thief subclass, no feats to add to damage etc.

I'll be honest, the fact that the rogue just kept pace with the paladin of peace and redemption is not exactly a stirring recommendation for rogue damage.

 

[Mort]

I'd like to see expected hit rate versus actual hit rate, also. Rogue looks to have hit on 5 out of 6 attacks (83%), but I don't know if that's boosted by dual-wielding, advantage, etc.

Once you get to high level, ACs aren't that high relative to bonuses. And yes Rogue was dual wielding so gets 2 shots to sneak attack

 

[Mort]

I'll be honest, the fact that the rogue just kept pace with the paladin of peace and redemption is not exactly a stirring recommendation for rogue damage.

1. The rogue isn't that optimized for combat;
2. A redemption paladin hits/smites just as hard as any other paladin and this was one was rocking 3 attacks per round thanks to a scimitar of speed.

 

[FrogReaver]

1. The rogue isn't that optimized for combat;
2. A redemption paladin hits/smites just as hard as any other paladin and this was one was rocking 3 attacks per round thanks to a scimitar of speed.

Your really going to have to detail the builds and the enemies they were fighting. All these piecemeal details just cast doubt on the whole scenario.

The Paladin wasnt actually a full Paladin and didn’t even get to improved divine smite is what we just found out. There’s no telling what spells he cast or what level of slots he used to smite with.

the fighter didn’t have precision attack.

the rogue we still don’t know whether he was dual wielding or what.

we don’t know the ac of all the enemies. We know one was 25… (Very high acs greatly benefit the rogue in comparison if he’s dual wielding).

we don’t know how often advantage and disadvantage happened.

so far the numbers posted are interesting but without a lot more context they are essentially meaningless.

 

[TwoSix]

1. The rogue isn't that optimized for combat;
2. A redemption paladin hits/smites just as hard as any other paladin and this was one was rocking 3 attacks per round thanks to a scimitar of speed.

I'm aware of all that, but you gotta admit it's pretty funny.

 

[Mort]

Your really going to have to detail the builds and the enemies they were fighting. All these piecemeal details just cast doubt on the whole scenario.

The Paladin wasnt actually a full Paladin and didn’t even get to improved divine smite is what we just found out. There’s no telling what spells he cast or what level of slots he used to smite with.

the fighter didn’t have precision attack.

the rogue we still don’t know whether he was dual wielding or what.

we don’t know the ac of all the enemies. We know one was 25… (Very high acs greatly benefit the rogue in comparison if he’s dual wielding).

we don’t know how often advantage and disadvantage happened.

so far the numbers posted are interesting but without a lot more context they are essentially meaningless.

True, context is everything.

But that can also mean over more than one battle - so I think even that level of detail isn't necessarily satisfactory (over 1 or 2 combats).

That said, I've revised my opinion a bit (after looking at the data).

I think a rogue, with sneak attack, can keep up to a good degree. But simply cannot keep up with the 'big" builds like the crossbow-expert sharpshooter (and presumably the melee equivalent great weaponmaster/polearm master). whether that's a flaw or a feature? Not sure yet.

 

[Mort]

I'm aware of all that, but you gotta admit it's pretty funny.

Yeah, it's a bit silly but good for a few laughs.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Also, I think you forgot to count the paladin's smites in round 6, since he dealt 100 damage there.

 

[TwoSix]

I think a rogue, with sneak attack, can keep up to a good degree. But simply cannot keep up with the 'big" builds like the crossbow-expert sharpshooter (and presumably the melee equivalent great weaponmaster/polearm master). whether that's a flaw or a feature? Not sure yet.

It's kind of a weird conundrum. Without feats, most of the martial options are tuned pretty well; I don't think there's any standard class/subclass option that's wildly out of whack. But without the scaling that some of the power feats provide, martial classes lose their one big advantage compared to casters.