D&D 5E New Drow cultures coming in Starlight Enclave, the Lorendrow and the Aevendrow

[Henadic Theologian]

I'll add . . . the environment outside of Callidae is HARSH. It's the freakin' north pole, after all. The first part of the novel covers how our heroes, Cattie-brie, Jarlaxle, Zaknafein, and Artermis are all almost taken out by an avalance, the wind, and the cold. Callidae itself is an oasis of safety and comfort, with the hot spring flowing through it providing warmth and life for it's inhabitants. The walls of the partially enclosed glacial caverns make for good city walls too, and provide protection against their enemies, the frost giants. So, plenty of (in-universe) reason for the aevendrow of Callidae to live inside the icy caverns of Qadeej's glacier.

The lorendrow? Well, we've been told they live in Chult, we've got that one picture you posted . . . and that's about it. Presumably, we'll meet them in a later Salvatore novel . . . .

I'll add the Aevendrow and Lorendrow are hiding from their historical enemies.

 

[Bladesinger]

Menzoberranzan isn't the only city of udadrow in the underdark . . . . but it's the only one that most casual D&D fans would have ever heard about. Plus (to my knowledge), all other "known" drow cities or settlements are expansions of the evil, underdark-dwelling, udadrow culture that venerates Lolth . . . or some other evil deity like Ghaunadar, Vhaerun, or Kiaransalee. Ched Nasad, specifically, was destroyed in a war with Menzoberranzan many novels ago . . .

So . . . WotC could have:

1. Taken an existing drow settlement and retconned it to not-quite-so-evil . . . but the canon police would be cranky, and drow culture would still lack diversity.
2. Give all drow more nuance, less all-evil-all-the-time and more mortal folk caught up in a dysfunctional and oppressive society . . . which they've actually been doing (slowly and inconsistently) for decades now. But we'd still be left with all drow come from an evil society, which itself is problematic.
3. Add additional drow cultures to the world . . . and why do that if they are just like our existing drow, but not-evil? WotC chose to add some variety to drow culture with our glacier drow (aevendrow) and jungle drow (lorendrow).

Salvatore has presented the aevendrow culture (so far) as pretty goody-two shoes, in opposition to the chaos of Lolth. But it's not hard to tweak ever so slightly for more nuance, not unlike how the Menzoberranzan drow have been tweaked over the years to be less auto-evil. I think the aevendrow, as described, are an easy and fun add to my campaign, with minor tweaks making them less all-good much like the udodrow are less all-evil.

One of the reasons why Salvatore has given us such a utopian drow society, is to present an alternative to our heroes within the story. In the background of the last two novels, roughly half of the houses of Menzoberranzan have rejected Lolth, and the city is about to be torn apart in a bloody civil war, with the Lolth-sworn loyalists likely to come out on top. Part of the motivation of our heroes is to find ways to lessen the conflict and loss of life, and ensure that the Lolth-apostates win the day, saving the udadrow people from continued suffering under Lolth's tyranny. Jarlaxle, Zaknafein, and Drizzt aren't convinced this is likely, and the discovery of another drow culture not under Lolth's sway gives them an example, and hope, that Menzoberranzan can be saved. Part of what has kept Menzoberranzan under Lolth's thrall for so long is the belief that there is no other viable path, you live or die by Lolth's rules, love them or hate them. Jarlaxle in particular is moved to tears, to displays of emotion that surprise his long-time companions . . . . he's coming out of this a changed man, even moreso than his slow evolution over the past 30 or so Salvatore novels. Again, yes, it's a bit heavy-handed in places, but . . . I'm digging the direction the story is going, and the new-and-improved lore of the Realms.

I know there are more Drow cities in the Underdark, their just making it sound in some cases like Menzoberranzan is the only one, and now sorta the First one, which also isn't true. I'm just saying they muddied things up a bit more than necessary.

You're also correct that fans would have been up in arms no matter what they did. However, that to me seems like a good reason to stick to canon, let those who are going to be upset be upset, and at least have you justification that we stayed as close to canon as possible. That just sounds like a better justification and reason than just, hey look over here!

Actually, I'm not digging where the story is going, just because it seems VERY forced. Had it seemed more organic in growth than just Here they ARE! and the over-compensation in how stupidly good the Aevendrow are, I might like it better. I don't hate the Aevendrow or Callidae, in fact there are some cool facets to them both, just, meh.

Also, the religious stuff in this book is really, I don't know what to call it. Salvatore seems to have a real chip on his shoulder with religion in this book. I know he's said he doesn't like Eilistraee and that good Drow don't need a Goddess to be good, but then he argues its because of Lolth the U da Drow are Evil. Huh?

Also, put me in the camp, 99% of Drow are Evil. A few exceptions make those characters special. When everyone is special, no one is. Again, YMMV.

 

[SkidAce]

I like the Mystara shadow elves. I've incorporated the long elven journey from the polar ice (used to be equator before the disaster) to their current elven homelands (temperate climate.)

Like Mystara, my shadow elves live: underground (but near surface) or in the ancient semi-tech city still under the ice.

Looks like another "Hey Chris did you steal the idea of an elven city at the south pole from Wizards"? situation. /sigh.


IMPORTANT SIDE NOTE QUESTION: So my more evilly shadow elves sometimes have a change of heart and go on a pilgrimage to the Elf queen and renounce their "shadow", becoming basically eladrin or high elves?

Am I to understand/assume that this campaign element of many years is now on the "no no" list?

Or its okay cause its not a published product and my players are familiar with the lore?

 

[Dire Bare]

I know there are more Drow cities in the Underdark, their just making it sound in some cases like Menzoberranzan is the only one, and now sorta the First one, which also isn't true. I'm just saying they muddied things up a bit more than necessary.

You're also correct that fans would have been up in arms no matter what they did. However, that to me seems like a good reason to stick to canon, let those who are going to be upset be upset, and at least have you justification that we stayed as close to canon as possible. That just sounds like a better justification and reason than just, hey look over here!

Actually, I'm not digging where the story is going, just because it seems VERY forced. Had it seemed more organic in growth than just Here they ARE! and the over-compensation in how stupidly good the Aevendrow are, I might like it better. I don't hate the Aevendrow or Callidae, in fact there are some cool facets to them both, just, meh.

Also, the religious stuff in this book is really, I don't know what to call it. Salvatore seems to have a real chip on his shoulder with religion in this book. I know he's said he doesn't like Eilistraee and that good Drow don't need a Goddess to be good, but then he argues its because of Lolth the U da Drow are Evil. Huh?

Also, put me in the camp, 99% of Drow are Evil. A few exceptions make those characters special. When everyone is special, no one is. Again, YMMV.

Salvatore's novels are told from the perspective of several inhabitants of Menzoberranzan. According to canon, it isn't the first city of the udodrow to be founded, but . . . it's arguably the most important. It certainly is the most important to Drizzt, Zaknafein, and Jarlaxle! And certainly from a fan perspective, only uber-fans could even name a drow city beyond Menzoberranzan.

How is adding new lore not sticking to canon? How does the addition of aevendrow and lorendrow break canon in any meaningful way? It is an additive change. Sure, some of the nitty-gritty details of events millennia ago need some tweaking, but not much. And besides, the existing canon is problematic and needs a significant refresh. How is this more "forced" than any other addition or change to lore?

The trope that the drow race (and/or culture) is reliably evil, with a few "good ones" as exceptions (Drizzt) . . . . is a racist trope. It needs to die. It's akin to telling your black friend how you think the BLM movement is violent and full of thugs, but "not you, you're one of the good ones".

 

[Dire Bare]

I like the Mystara shadow elves. I've incorporated the long elven journey from the polar ice (used to be equator before the disaster) to their current elven homelands (temperate climate.)

Like Mystara, my shadow elves live: underground (but near surface) or in the ancient semi-tech city still under the ice.

Looks like another "Hey Chris did you steal the idea of an elven city at the south pole from Wizards"? situation. /sigh.


IMPORTANT SIDE NOTE QUESTION: So my more evilly shadow elves sometimes have a change of heart and go on a pilgrimage to the Elf queen and renounce their "shadow", becoming basically eladrin or high elves?

Am I to understand/assume that this campaign element of many years is now on the "no no" list?

Or its okay cause its not a published product and my players are familiar with the lore?

I'm a little confused over what you are asking here . . . .

Are you running a Mystara campaign, with largely canon shadow elves? Or did you just borrow the concept of the Mystaran shadow elves for your own homebrew campaign? Either way, if you have a city of elves near one of the poles . . . . go with it man, ignore folks who complain that you "stole" the idea from elsewhere, that's what good DMs do!

If your race of elves is intrinsically evil . . . yeah, that's problematic. How much so depends on your table and their sensibilities. It kinda doesn't matter what WotC is doing with the drow or other fantasy races, how you handle it is up to you. Hopefully taking considerations towards, 1) your players' sensibilities, and 2) systemic racism embedded in the game and genre (YMMV on that one).

If your race of shadow elves isn't necessarily evil, but does carry some sort of "shadow curse" that can be cleansed with a pilgrimage . . . . that could be cool . . . .

 

[Scribe]

It's akin to telling your black friend how you think the BLM movement is violent and full of thugs, but "not you, you're one of the good ones".

I think that's a particularly egregious comparison. I see those who have left as much closer to defectors from a brutal dictatorship, which instead of having just a ruling council, has an actual god like being that can turn a defector into a half spider monstrosity....

I wont bother with a real world comparison because again...this is fiction.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I think that's a particularly egregious comparison. I see those who have left as much closer to defectors from a brutal dictatorship, which instead of having just a ruling council, has an actual god like being that can turn a defector into a half spider monstrosity....

I wont bother with a real world comparison because again...this is fiction.

Yeah its not like the Drow are evil because its in their genes, they are evil because they live in an evil society run by an evil god. I dont see how that compares to "the real world". Real world stuff is typically "the are genetically inferior" which isnt the case in D&D.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Menzoberranzan isn't the only city of udadrow in the underdark . . . . but it's the only one that most casual D&D fans would have ever heard about. Plus (to my knowledge), all other "known" drow cities or settlements are expansions of the evil, underdark-dwelling, udadrow culture that venerates Lolth . . . or some other evil deity like Ghaunadar, Vhaerun, or Kiaransalee. Ched Nasad, specifically, was destroyed in a war with Menzoberranzan many novels ago . . .

So . . . WotC could have:

1. Taken an existing drow settlement and retconned it to not-quite-so-evil . . . but the canon police would be cranky, and drow culture would still lack diversity.
2. Give all drow more nuance, less all-evil-all-the-time and more mortal folk caught up in a dysfunctional and oppressive society . . . which they've actually been doing (slowly and inconsistently) for decades now. But we'd still be left with all drow come from an evil society, which itself is problematic.
3. Add additional drow cultures to the world . . . and why do that if they are just like our existing drow, but not-evil? WotC chose to add some variety to drow culture with our glacier drow (aevendrow) and jungle drow (lorendrow).

Salvatore has presented the aevendrow culture (so far) as pretty goody-two shoes, in opposition to the chaos of Lolth. But it's not hard to tweak ever so slightly for more nuance, not unlike how the Menzoberranzan drow have been tweaked over the years to be less auto-evil. I think the aevendrow, as described, are an easy and fun add to my campaign, with minor tweaks making them less all-good much like the udodrow are less all-evil.

One of the reasons why Salvatore has given us such a utopian drow society, is to present an alternative to our heroes within the story. In the background of the last two novels, roughly half of the houses of Menzoberranzan have rejected Lolth, and the city is about to be torn apart in a bloody civil war, with the Lolth-sworn loyalists likely to come out on top. Part of the motivation of our heroes is to find ways to lessen the conflict and loss of life, and ensure that the Lolth-apostates win the day, saving the udadrow people from continued suffering under Lolth's tyranny. Jarlaxle, Zaknafein, and Drizzt aren't convinced this is likely, and the discovery of another drow culture not under Lolth's sway gives them an example, and hope, that Menzoberranzan can be saved. Part of what has kept Menzoberranzan under Lolth's thrall for so long is the belief that there is no other viable path, you live or die by Lolth's rules, love them or hate them. Jarlaxle in particular is moved to tears, to displays of emotion that surprise his long-time companions . . . . he's coming out of this a changed man, even moreso than his slow evolution over the past 30 or so Salvatore novels. Again, yes, it's a bit heavy-handed in places, but . . . I'm digging the direction the story is going, and the new-and-improved lore of the Realms.

Ched Nasda was rebuilt. And there is one city where Eilistraee's priestess rule over Drow Houses openly, not just Lolthite houses, but I forget which city.

Anyways I've been thinking about why the Aevendrow's Gods haven't been named yet, and I think that its most likely they are still figuring that out.

 

[Weiley31]

Anyways I've been thinking about why the Aevendrow's Gods haven't been named yet, and I think that its most likely they are still figuring that out.

Seems like the most likely answer: These three books are going to be the big shakers and movers in regards to the Drow and updating most of their lore/being. Probably has to come up with a reason WHY this new goddess only seems to give a jaack about the Aevendrow and had no probs with completely ignoring the rest. Heck it's possible the Chult branch of these new Drow worship the same goddess as the Aevendrow but in a different light OR its just another aspect.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Seems like the most likely answer: These three books are going to be the big shakers and movers in regards to the Drow and updating most of their lore/being. Probably has to come up with a reason WHY this new goddess only seems to give a jaack about the Aevendrow and had no probs with completely ignoring the rest. Heck it's possible the Chult branch of these new Drow worship the same goddess as the Aevendrow but in a different light OR its just another aspect.

I bet it's Lolths split personality or something. Can't have an evil goddess be completely evil. Plus, WHAT A TWIST!