D&D 5E Why Don't We Simplify 5e?

[Thomas Shey]

A lot of the game's complexity comes from the spells, which are not one of the optional items you listed.

You're not going to have a simple spell system as long as you're using exception based design for them. And that's pretty much a sacred cow in D&D.

 

[Aldarc]

You're not going to have a simple spell system as long as you're using exception based design for them. And that's pretty much a sacred cow in D&D.

I’m not saying otherwise. Simply that spells contribute to the complexity to the game.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I’m not saying otherwise. Simply that spells contribute to the complexity to the game.

Yeah. Honestly, even though their description was sometimes sketchy, they were the most complicated element of the extremely schematic rules in OD&D.

 

[overgeeked]

You could always handle spells like they did in the old days and just make it up.

 

[turnip_farmer]

Handing pre-gen instead of going through character creation with new player, more or less says that you think that new player is too dumb to comprehend several pages of a book. I would rather spend 2hrs with new player than handing them my own idea what they should play.

Harking back to an old post here, but this is a very uncharitable way of looking at it.

Handing out pregens to new players is not calling them dumb. It's not forcing them to go through a tedious process of preparation before they can actually play and find out if they like the game.

None of my friends would sit down for two hours to learn the rules of something. If you told them that was necessary they just wouldn't play. If I ever need to get someone to play a new game, we just sit down and play and they learn the rules as they go. For a game like DnD, if they got into it, then they'd look at the rulebooks and options afterwards. Which they'd understand easily because my friends aren't dumb. They just value their time.

 

[overgeeked]

Harking back to an old post here, but this is a very uncharitable way of looking at it.

Handing out pregens to new players is not calling them dumb. It's not forcing them to go through a tedious process of preparation before they can actually play and find out if they like the game.

None of my friends would sit down for two hours to learn the rules of something. If you told them that was necessary they just wouldn't play. If I ever need to get someone to play a new game, we just sit down and play and they learn the rules as they go. For a game like DnD, if they got into it, then they'd look at the rulebooks and options afterwards. Which they'd understand easily because my friends aren't dumb. They just value their time.

Yeah. You don’t need 99% of the stuff we cling to to actually play. There’s a lot of gatekeeping that’s been built up over the years that’s so common it’s considered not only necessary but good. Having to do a pile of homework before play is one. Really. You can just play. Here’s a situation with conflict and tension. Go.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I’m not saying otherwise. Simply that spells contribute to the complexity to the game.

Therefore, one way to simplify would be to look at the complex spells and simplify them - some might need to be eliminated because a simple version wouldn't work (planar ally), some might need a complete overhaul to be even a little workable (polymorph), some might need tweaks and/or loosening up (detect magic), and some might be fine as-is (most attack spells).

I'm not sure if summons are in category 1 or 2.

 

[overgeeked]

Therefore, one way to simplify would be to look at the complex spells and simplify them - some might need to be eliminated because a simple version wouldn't work (planar ally), some might need a complete overhaul to be even a little workable (polymorph), some might need tweaks and/or loosening up (detect magic), and some might be fine as-is (most attack spells).

I'm not sure if summons are in category 1 or 2.

The spell list could be drastically culled and not lose much. Most of them are gradations of a theme. Bigger, smaller, more precise, bigger effect, longer distance, etc. You don’t really need 78 pages to detail the differences between a single target fire spell and a AoE fire spell and a replacement torch fire spell. You’re a Bright wizard. You like fire. Go. Or minor differences in mind control magic. Or how far and to where you can teleport. Or how you can summon more, less, bigger, or smaller allies to help you. There’s a lot of redundant cruft in there.

 

[Thomas Shey]

You could always handle spells like they did in the old days and just make it up.

As I noted, even OD&D had more detail on individual (and idioysncratic) spells than they did on virtually any other element of the game.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah. You don’t need 99% of the stuff we cling to to actually play. There’s a lot of gatekeeping that’s been built up over the years that’s so common it’s considered not only necessary but good. Having to do a pile of homework before play is one. Really. You can just play. Here’s a situation with conflict and tension. Go.

However, on the inverse side, there's a view that a lot of things are cruft that are part of what provides engagement with play for some people, and to act like that either isn't true or that people for whom it is true are some disposable fringe.

Simplicity is a virtue, but its not the only one, and assuming it trumps all others is not a self-evidently core position to have.