D&D 5E New D&D WotC survey! On classes.

[R_J_K75]

That is a pretty fun idea. I'd been thinking of using that Lineage for my next character too, if it fits the setting we're in.

I try to make each character unique. Last session my cleric of Thor used shocking grasp to weld his tankard handle to his shield handle so he can fight and drink at the same time.

 

[Neonchameleon]

They may well fail to bring classes up, but already the range in 5E is vastly narrower. You mention LFQW, and that's already not really present in 5E. Yeah, there is still an issue where casters gain a bit too much at higher levels, because of WotC's unwillingness to kill certain sacred cows they resurrected after 4E, but there's no class/subclass in 5E where you're likely to feel worthless, just "kind of weaker".

I'll argue for one and a half exceptions in terms of subclasses that feel worthless - and even then you've got a main class that's just kind of weaker.

The one truly worthless subclass is the PHB Beastmaster Ranger. The problem here is that your animal companion, being a melee combatant with the hit points and AC of a wizard is so fragile you feel as if you've saddled the party with an escort mission. The half is Four Elements Monk - they are a very weak and anti-synergystic subclass of a fairly weak base class.

Because if you're picking Bard, in D&D, that's never what a Bard in D&D has been, and in other fantasy, bard-type characters relatively rarely use "sound-based magic". They used "sound-based magic" a lot less, I'd suggest than people who are just straight-up wizards or warriors.

Honestly I'd call "sound-based magic" a sorcerer or barbarian thing. Sorcerers are the casters who focus on one big area of magic and barbarians have their big flashy rage that should meld well with sound.

Bards, rather than being sound based, I'd say have their magic much more deeply rooted in illusions and enchantmet.

It's not really what the Bard was in 3.XE, but that Bard was kind of a trashfire, design-wise (even if 3.5E improved it a bit) - there's a reason it was the butt of more mockery than any other class in that edition, and it wasn't how people played it, it was how its abilities worked.

I actually like the 3.5 bard - but the 3.0 one was a complete trashfire and the Pathfinder one broke most of the parts that worked of the 3.5 one.

There's no concept you could do with a 3.5E Bard that you couldn't with a 5E Bard. It encompasses everything that class could do and is also a better caster and potentially a better fighter.

Given the shenanigans I could get up to with a 3.5 bard and optimised Inspire Courage I'm going to disagree here. The 5e bard lacks the long term buffs and sheer area and NPC buffs of Inspire Courage, the general knowledge of Bardic Lore and well, the Glibness (the bard spell list in 3.5 was better than it looked, with a discount on certain spells). Of course Inspire Courage got really good when you were allowed multiple sources; by third level you could make it better by means of a feat, a spell, and a magic item - and +4 to hit and damage on all your attacks for the entire party at third level really changes the math and Bardic Inspiration, being single target per use, is nowhere near as good.

 

[R_J_K75]

The one truly worthless subclass is the PHB Beastmaster Ranger. The problem here is that your animal companion, being a melee combatant with the hit points and AC of a wizard is so fragile you feel as if you've saddled the party with an escort mission.

We have a Beastmaster in our party as well. He has a black bear companion which is just a PITA. I hate when Im DMing and I find the party in a situation that the bear has no business being involved in or finding ways to figure out how to get it past obstacles.

 

[Neonchameleon]

We have a Beastmaster in our party as well. He has a black bear companion which is just a PITA. I hate when Im DMing and I find the party in a situation that the bear has no business being involved in or finding ways to figure out how to get it past obstacles.

Try upgrading it to the Tasha's version that's a spirit companion?

 

[R_J_K75]

Try upgrading it to the Tasha's version that's a spirit companion?

Thanks I'll look into it.

 

[Garthanos]

I havent played much in years, mostly DM'd 5E, but have gotten to play more recently. Every time I have to delve into the PHB to create or update a character its just seems like a lot of page flipping and reading a paragraph or two just to find that something does 1d8 damage, as an example. Just seems it should be easier. IDK maybe its always been this way and Im just cranky as Im getting older?

No 4e kept mechanics and flavor distinct and clear

 

[R_J_K75]

No 4e kept mechanics and flavor distinct and clear

Its been awhile since I played 4E but I seem to remember this.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The one truly worthless subclass is the PHB Beastmaster Ranger. The problem here is that your animal companion, being a melee combatant with the hit points and AC of a wizard is so fragile you feel as if you've saddled the party with an escort mission. The half is Four Elements Monk - they are a very weak and anti-synergystic subclass of a fairly weak base class.

Yeah I called both out in the survey as particularly weak subclasses. They're the closest 5E gets to "worthless".

Honestly I'd call "sound-based magic" a sorcerer or barbarian thing. Sorcerers are the casters who focus on one big area of magic and barbarians have their big flashy rage that should meld well with sound.

Bards, rather than being sound based, I'd say have their magic much more deeply rooted in illusions and enchantmet.

Exactly, and this is reflected in fantasy fiction, both in games (TTRPGs and video games) and in literature and so on. The "shouting barbarian" is a pretty common thing to see in computer games particularly.

Bards in games vary quite a bit, for example in Dark Age of Camelot, each of the realms had a "Bard-equivalent", the Skald of Midgard, a decent melee combatant who also buffed people and harmed enemies, the Bard of Hibernia, who was basically healer and crowd-control, who healed and buffed allies, and enchanted enemies, and the Minstrel of Albion, who was heavier on the CC, and had some nasty tricks, and could again, also buff allies.

 

[Garthanos]

My beef with bard is that I simply don't have a name for an iconic "bard" in my fantasy. I can name a went-once-to-church paladin. I can name a wizard. I can even name an iconic artificer (though I must admit that Gilgamesh Wulfenbach or Agatha Heterodyne lack the classic feel of Roland, Merlin or even Cugel, they entered by mental space). Not a single bard. Unless you're willing to count Iluvatar, but that's a stretch.

That, and I recently heard someone actually say the word barlock out loud. I kind of lamented my lack of smiting ability.

Merlin was a classic Celtic bard.... but they have more druidic teacher flavor elements ... less music

 

[Garthanos]

Merlin is a Bard.

THIS