Gladius Legis
Hero
Oh, I did too, because I wanted to.well, I did.
Oh, I did too, because I wanted to.well, I did.
Butting in. I think you could easily justify a necromancer as a half-caster if they had sufficient magical abilities to compensate. For instance, if they get their zombie-making or dead-talking as class abilities instead of spells. In this case, their spells would represent the bulk of their non-necromantic magic.I feel I don't really agree with your vision of necromancer. To me it seems completely absurd to suggest that they would not be full casters.
it is a mere sorcerer the blood inheritor of talent, not someone who does what I need it to, and besides will and charisma are two very different things it is easy for you to swallow as you never care either way hence it slides right down your throat whilst I choke on it.I feel the same way. It looks like a psion, feels like a psion, and casts like a psion (even moreso if you use the Spell Points rule in the DMG). The only thing it's missing is a silent P in the name...and that's apparently a deal-breaker for lots of folks.
One of my favorites:
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you could but is it a good idea?Butting in. I think you could easily justify a necromancer as a half-caster if they had sufficient magical abilities to compensate. For instance, if they get their zombie-making or dead-talking as class abilities instead of spells. In this case, their spells would represent the bulk of their non-necromantic magic.
Similarly I think of zombie making as normally a ritual exercise... not exactly active spell casting you do as much mid battle.Butting in. I think you could easily justify a necromancer as a half-caster if they had sufficient magical abilities to compensate. For instance, if they get their zombie-making or dead-talking as class abilities instead of spells. In this case, their spells would represent the bulk of their non-necromantic magic.
Is it a bad one? I mean, take a look at rangers and paladins. They are both flavorful and both generally rely more on their class/archetype abilities than on spells. If you want the necromancer to actually focus on necromancy, then more of their necromantic abilities should be class abilities.you could but is it a good idea?
General D&D usage: person who creates and controls undead.why have none considered my question what is it we mean by necromancer? as if we know that we know what it has to be built to?
Sabriel is the first book in the Abhorsen trilogy, by Garth Nix. It's about a young necromancer trying to rescue her father. I highly recommend it!what is that book about as not even my parent's collection has it?
Yeah, the inconsistencies of the schools causes future mechanics that depend on them to convolute as well.It also feels that the themes and processes for spell traditions are repeatedly broken for the sake of creating loopholes in earlier iterations of the game - e.g., a conjuration/transmutation spell that is effectively an evocation attack spell that the Conjurer/Transmuter can cast, etc. - and these oddities have been preserved mostly for the sake of tradition than consistentcy. Not to mention the bizarre refusal by WotC to make healing a type of Necromancy.
The level of detail on this survey is bordering on something people should be paid for. It's practically a consultation.
It's statements like this as well as your whole "four attributes" schtick that cause @TwoSix and I to repeatedly recommend Shadow of the Demon Lord to you.It seems to me the most effective way to organize spells is thematically. When players create character concepts and DMs create worlds, themes are the most salient consideration.
Many mage concepts do well to focus on two themes simultaneously, such as making cantrips and the highest spells available cohere to these two themes.
I like Schwalb. Excellent designer.It statements like this as well as your whole "four attributes" schtick that cause @TwoSix and I to repeatedly recommend Shadow of the Demon Lord to you.
it is more I have never heard of necromancer as a half caster as what would the other half be?If ones argument for a Necromancer being a full caster (or anything really) is "tradition" usually coined in the terms of that's how D&D has always done it, you are on a sinking ship. Past methods do not necessitate future methods and past methods are not always the best methods by virtue of being past methods. The Necromancer has enough theme and design room to make a full class, it has enough player and DM attraction to be worth the effort so I believe a separate and not necessarily a full caster Necromancer being something worth investigating.
To expand upon the above I believe "Tradition" all too often is used as argument for things existing as they are, existing at all or not existing. This stagnation can be harmful to the game. Please keep in mind I am not advocating change for change sake but if "Tradition" is the main defence and their are better ways let's feast on Hamburgers with sacred cow.
depends on the thematics as some are so hyper specialised that the whole game would have to be rebuilt to make the useable like a pyromancer other or so broad to be just magic which is so general it is a class, not a subclass.Yeah, the inconsistencies of the schools causes future mechanics that depend on them to convolute as well.
It seems to me the most effective way to organize spells is thematically. When players create character concepts and DMs create worlds, themes are the most salient consideration.
Many mage concepts do well to focus on two themes simultaneously, such as making cantrips and the highest spells available cohere to these two themes.
Re healing. Having organized every official spell for my own use, I find it most useful to treat healing as its own spell theme.
The "purpose" of healing is Abjuration, being part of protective defensive magic, generally. Abjuration is a decent keyword tag, even when organizing by theme.
The purposes look something like the following:
Offense / Defense
Mobility / Barrier
Detection / Stealth
And I consider summoning allies, pets, companions a seventh spell purpose.
But themes are something different. A spell of a specific theme might fulfill any of the above purposes.
There are different methods of healing: positive energy, shapeshifting, and morale. Each of these is a different theme: planar, body, and mind. While I treat the life energy of healing as its own theme, it pairs well with any of these three.
I see necromancy as a theme that focuses on death and undeath. I dont see it as relating to life (healing) per se. That said, a mage that focused on both life and death for the two main themes, could choose healing and necromancy for the central concepts.
I think artificer I think clockwork devices like even early on davinci gliders and robotics and even later things like mechanical birds and such inspired by the Elric Saga.The Artificer class is awesome for a "New Age" crystal psionic, that treats the crystals as an external psionic technology. (It would merge with the UA "iphone" Artificer, if I recall correctly, the Archivist. They synthesize well, with the crystal magic being more fantasyflavor, and the iphone being a better conceptual mechanic.)
Is this a joke? I listed some upthread, and if you can't come up with a bunch yourself it seems like a weird thing to argue with. Are you looking for me to provide you with a comprehensive list of necromancer portrayals lol? I probably can.What portrayals?
It absolutely is not. There's no possible argument that you need Full Caster to do a necromancer. None. You haven't presented anything that remotely supports that claim. You've suggested a design that you think works that way - but given how incredibly terrible Wizard necromancers are with similar mechanics I'm super-skeptical that we'd see an improvement moving them to Sorcerer. Even if we take everything you've said as correct, that's merely presenting a viable option, not ruling out the possibility of a half-caster, warlock-style (or even non-caster) necromancer class.That is very much debatable.
I want to know what portrayals lead you to believe a necromancer not being a full time magician?Is this a joke? I listed some upthread, and if you can't come up with a bunch yourself it seems like a weird thing to argue with. Are you looking for me to provide you with a comprehensive list of necromancer portrayals lol? I probably can.