Lyxen
Great Old One
So people aska bout build advice, and they get build advice, but it is the wrong kind of advice so you want to protest Floating ASIs? I'll let you in on a secret, floating ASIs or not, you won't change the fact that when people ask for advice, they get it. And sure, it would be great to see people giving more varied advice, but again, that has nothing to do with floating ASIs. Take them or leave them, and you will not change that. With them though, you might get more varied advice.
And at our tables we chose to leave them just like we do with other options, and not ask for advice because we are not building technical characters that need a technical crutch to seem attractive to play.
Maybe the other person will agree with you, maybe not, but your issues have nothing to do with Floating ASIs.
They have everything to do, it's a power option, demonstrated as such.
You are looking at this as Binary. You've told people that want FLoating ASIs that it is optional, which is clearly a sign that you think they shouldn't do it. And you also have made the claim that "reasonable people" don't want it either.
I don't think I ever did something of the kind. I'm saying that when you don't want a powergame, it's reasonable to leave power options on the side, nothing more.
But, I'm a reasonable person. I'm not some monstrous player who will mock you for your build, or scream down a new player for doing something that isn't mechanically optimal. And I like Floating ASIs. They open options for me that weren't open before.
This is really funny because it demonstrates that it only opens options that were not considered before because they were not powerful enough for your taste. Because the Floating ASIs did not create any new option in terms of race/class. They only make options that were here all along more palatable because now you have more power with them!
However, since you refuse to imagine that anyone who disagress with you is anything except dishonest and toxic to the game, you are fighting back against a tool that can help you.
Please stop it with the strawmaning. We don't need these options, we don't need crutches to have race/class combination seem attractive. You do, hence it's powergaming. I don't ascribe something evil to this, so why are you doing it to yourself ?
We've said the benefits. It allows character concepts that don't fee, hampered by being behind the curve. Instead of playing a Tiefling warlock who gets +3 attack, damage, spell DC and every social skill, I can play an and get those same starting values, and I can play the story of them being in a marriage arranged by their Fey Godmother to marry into a Faerie Noblehouse.
And here you go, just to justify a +1 Technical power, you do exactly what I say, you invent a TECHNICAL build and you try to justify it with a story that anyone can invent in 3 seconds. The only person that you are fooling here is yourself, you know, because I chose to play a halfling warlock, an extremely satisfying character, by the way, but without these bonuses years ago.
So nothin hampers you except the POWER that you need from th Floating ASIs. In short, only one word for it, powergaming.
Sure, you'll tell me I could play those characters anyways, if I just gave up on that +3 then I could do anything and not worry about it. But, no, I can't.
Why ? Because you like the power of the +1. Powergaming, this has NOTHING to do with story or roleplaying.
If I could I would have done that the last thousand times someone talked down to me about how I'm just wrong. But, surprisingly, my own expeirences at my own games, struggling to succeed with characters who have that +3 tell me that I'd probably have a worse time of it with only a +2.
And why are you struggling ? The difficulty is not set beforehand by an unforgiving DM who decides to kill characters if they lack a +1, or at least I hope your DM is not like that. Ours certainly are not. Moreover, considering that this +1 has really had a statistical effect over a few games is mathematically fallacious. Pure luck has a much greater influence over the few rolls that you are doing in a given session anyway, and you are much more likely to die from bad luck than from a missing +1...
And I'm sure you'll tell me that challenge is an illusion, and that my DM would certainly start pulling their punches if I made weaker characters. But no, first of all, they wouldn't.
And you don't think that it's a problem ?
And second of all, they only might if everyone else was making an non-archetypical character. But if they are all making archetypical characters, then I'm the one left playing the oddball and struggling.
And here you see one of the nasty sides of powergaming (although not the nastiest). Why are you in this competition about playing archetypal characters ? Powergaming, and ONLY powergaming. It has nothing to do with how the game is described by the devs.
For no other reason than because some people don't like it when you play against type and are effective at it (because real players succeed anyways or some nonsense)
And isn't that exactly what I'm telling you is one of the nasty effects of powergaming ? Looking down at people who do not optimise their character ? Saying that only powergamers are "real players"?
and others like you are arguing that if I want to be on even footing I must be a powergamer who derides others and wants to force them to make the choices I like instead of the ones that they like, so I should definetly not be allowed to make the choice I like and be forced to make the choice you like.
And above I though you were making the choices because of powergaming peer pressure ? But no, it's because you like it as well. Power gamer.
And this is binary thinking. Let me ask you this. You mentioned Treantmonk. Personally, I think the guy is way off base, but you seem to think he's pretty smart. And he is certainly a powergamer.
I don't doubt that, but I never said he was great, I said that he had the same thinking as me about what wizards are about.
Whose powergaming guide did he read? Whose build is he following? Because, you keep saying that all powergamers just parrot the words of the guides, that anyone who just builds a character without referencing a guide is not a powergamer, so he must be reading someone's guide and using that to parrot his characters, right?
Once day, you will read my posts and stop strawmaning, and it will help immensely in the discussions. I never said anything like the above, i'm pointing to guides as obvious sources of powergaming, but I'm not guilty of the sophisms that you profess. Obviously, you can be a powergamer without consulting the guides, I'm just pointing out that I've seen so many people on the forums referencing them as their source of inspiration that they certainly have some effect, at least on the community frequenting the forums...