Teens in Space Wins Best RPG Origins Award

The 2020 Origins Awards have been announced, and in the role-playing game category, the winning game was Renegade Game Studios' Teens in Space.

Teens in Space uses the same system as Kids on Bikes. Renegade Game Studios has a partnership with WotC owner Hasbro, and recently announced an official Power Rangers RPG (and hinted at GI Joe, Transformers, and My Little Pony).

The Origins Awards cover a range of tabletop gaming categories, including board games, card games, and more. You can see all of this year's winners here.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I don't have to answer it, that's the great thing. You're the one who intimated that it was copy-paste pap, so either back that opinion up or leave it,. It doesn't actually matter to me which. I have read them btw, KoB in some depth and TiS in a more cursory way, but that's really not what's at issue here. Why not just admit that you don't know either game and have nothing pertinent to say about how innovative or not they might be?

You don’t have to answer it, but all this suggests is that you can’t. Hence the default position is sustained. You have literally provided the backing to that opinion by your own response.

Why don’t you just admit that you don’t know the game enough to be able to produce a single valid counter point?

 

[Fenris-77]

Oh my, look at you dance. Nope, you said it was derivative and easy. Prove it or not. Wheee! Isn't this fun?

 

[TrippyHippy]

Oh my, look at you dance. Nope, you said it was derivative and easy. Prove it or not. Wheee! Isn't this fun?

No again - there is no argument here. No defense; nothing to actually counter the point - so it still stands.

 

[Fenris-77]

OK, no worries, you don't want to backstop your hot take, that's fine, but lets not pretend its on someone else to prove your empty opinion wrong. You didn't read the games, you don't know the games, you have nothing to say about the games, we get it. I'm moving on...

 

[Gradine]

No again - there is no argument here. No defense; nothing to actually counter the point - so it still stands.

We're all just shouting our opinions into the void, so in the balance of things none of this matters. But if one wanted to start quibbling about on whom the burden of proof lies in making this point, well...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the defense is an award-winning RPG, and the prosecution is... well... you. The answer seems kind of obvious at this point?

 

[TrippyHippy]

OK, no worries, you don't want to backstop your hot take, that's fine, but lets not pretend its on someone else to prove your empty opinion wrong. You didn't read the games, you don't know the games, you have nothing to say about the games, we get it. I'm moving on...

I’m not entirely sure what you are even trying to say here, now.

Firstly, the 'hot take' was actually stated by another poster. I simply agreed with the notion based on my current experience - so, indeed, this was ‘backstopping’ (?) it. Secondly, I have already stated that I have played, read and know the games I was referring to. Thirdly, you were asked repeatedly to elaborate on the reasons why you thought these games were innovative - you failed.

I guess that is a good time to move on.

 

[TrippyHippy]

We're all just shouting our opinions into the void, so in the balance of things none of this matters. But if one wanted to start quibbling about on whom the burden of proof lies in making this point, well...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the defense is an award-winning RPG, and the prosecution is... well... you. The answer seems kind of obvious at this point?

OK, well I’ll say again what the charge is - not stated by me initially, by the way - that the game is merely taking a system established in a previous game (Kids on Bikes) and applying it to a similar premise in space. So, the question is: what is innovative about it?

Happy to be given a counter argument.

However, saying it 'won an award' is merely avoiding the question with an appeal to authority. I recall Traveller: A New Era won an Origins award in 1993, with a house system. It really wasn’t that good - and yes, I read it, played it and owned it. The awards can be questioned.

 

[Gradine]

This goes back to the question of adaptation vs innovation, and whether these are mutually exclusive or not. The answer, by the way, is no, an adaptation can be incredibly innovative. Innovative doesn't always mean good or popular, mind you; 4e is easily the most innovative version of D&D, as an example.

PbtA was one example, but the idea that all PbtA hacks are the same game with a new coat of paint is provably false; almost laughably so. The amount of innovation going on in the PbtA hacking sphere is incredible, especially at the highest level. Masks is one of the most innovative hands I've ever played. To say nothing of Blades in the Dark, which is itself a highly innovative system inspired from PbtA that has itself spawned plenty of its own hacks.

I can't speak to the Kids on Bikes oeuvre specifically, but then neither can you, so the point is moot.

If the claim is that an adaptation of a game with the same underlying system cannot be innovative, then the claim is false.

E: If the claim is that Kids in Space is itself not very innovative, that is where we would require evidence of the claim

 

[MGibster]

Not really the point, is it?

I sometimes wonder but I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter. One of the things these industry awards do is make me aware of games I might otherwise never have been brought to my attention. I can't help but appreciate them for that.

 

[TrippyHippy]

This goes back to the question of adaptation vs innovation, and whether these are mutually exclusive or not. The answer, by the way, is no, an adaptation can be incredibly innovative. Innovative doesn't always mean good or popular, mind you; 4e is easily the most innovative version of D&D, as an example.

PbtA was one example, but the idea that all PbtA hacks are the same game with a new coat of paint is provably false; almost laughably so. The amount of innovation going on in the PbtA hacking sphere is incredible, especially at the highest level. Masks is one of the most innovative hands I've ever played. To say nothing of Blades in the Dark, which is itself a highly innovative system inspired from PbtA that has itself spawned plenty of its own hacks.

I can't speak to the Kids on Bikes oeuvre specifically, but then neither can you, so the point is moot.

If the claim is that an adaptation of a game with the same underlying system cannot be innovative, then the claim is false.

My experience is different, currently about PbtA games. And to be sure, Masks is one PbtA game that I have specifically played in a lot during the last year. Ditto Blades in the Dark.

This is not because of criticism of the game approach per se, which I’ve actually enjoyed, but more to do with over-enthusiasm from certain fans that have suggested it for everything in recent times. Of course, this isn’t a trait restricted to just PbtA fans!

However, I am finding that a number of the PbtA games are quite literally the same in feel and game play, regardless of the genre. It doesn’t feel any different to generic systems like GURPS or D20 in that respect. Indeed, the old D20/OGL was heavily criticized but it too could cite innovations for individual games within the same broad system. The claim is, therefore not that a game with the same underlying system cannot be innovative, but that there actually does need to be some identifiable innovation to make that claim.

So, back to Teens in Space: What is it that is identifiable as an innovation, beyond the system already established in Kids on Bikes, that makes it worthy of an award?