D&D 5E Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)

[Helldritch]

The world sees an atypical being it does not see where this came from nor care that they might be slightly more atypical than another atypical one of a different lineage..... ie much ado about simulation in a non-simulation

Well, in the real world you are absolutely right. Unfortunately, D&D is a game. At some point you have to realize that the "normal" poeple of a race have 10s everywhere and a 11 and 12 in two stats. Having the standard array makes a character quite exceptional already. From a +0/1 ability bonus to a total +5/7 is quite a step in the exceptional don't you think? This is a 500% to 700% increase.

Even the 4d6 method makes for quite exceptional individuals. At some point, the goal of the game is about heroes struggling to make better world or simply to save it. At which point do heroes become super heroes?

One other thing to consider, the stronger the characters, the stronger the challenge they will have to face. And this will lead to a much more swinging game where the scales will easily tips in either a surprise TPK or becomes simply too easy to offer a real challenge if the DM does nothing to adjust the challenges.

The game is balanced as is for the tier 2 to 3 but becomes trickier the higher you get. Fixed ASI gives character advantages and balance these with disadvantages on various classes. No one argues that wearing medium armor is quite a step for a wizard. This why dwarven a wizard starts with a maximum of 15 in intelligence. With floating ASI this balance is thrown to the four winds and nothing prevents your dwarven wizard from taking it a step further and take heavily armored as a feat on level 4. With fixed ASI, it would be a major throwback as it would mean being behind by two points. A 5% sacrifice is not that big of deal. But a 10% one is.

But maybe I have been a DM for so long that a players' perspective is becoming an alien thing to me. On the other hand, almost all my current players share my view on this...

 

[Garthanos]

Well, in the real world you are absolutely right. Unfortunately, D&D is a game. At some point you have to realize that the "normal" poeple of a race have 10s everywhere and a 11 and 12 in two stats. Having the standard array makes a character quite exceptional already. From a +0/1 ability bonus to a total +5/7 is quite a step in the exceptional don't you think? This is a 500% to 700% increase.

Even the 4d6 method makes for quite exceptional individuals. At some point, the goal of the game is about heroes struggling to make better world or simply to save it. At which point do heroes become super heroes?

One other thing to consider, the stronger the characters, the stronger the challenge they will have to face. And this will lead to a much more swinging game where the scales will easily tips in either a surprise TPK or becomes simply too easy to offer a real challenge if the DM does nothing to adjust the challenges.

It could if it was actually that significant. I feel there may be much more extensive issues over shadowing. Like having 6 saves most of which will never be trained pretty much makes everyone / anyone a potential sitting duck.

The game is balanced as is for the tier 2 to 3 but becomes trickier the higher you get. Fixed ASI gives character advantages and balance these with disadvantages on various classes.

I feel 5e balance is kind of slap dash as it stands, being used to 4e and this seems a very small difference in real terms the game has imbalanced feats and subclasses and many other things.

 

[Helldritch]

It could if it was actually that significant. I feel there may be much more extensive issues over shadowing. Like having 6 saves most of which will never be trained pretty much makes everyone / anyone a potential sitting duck.

I feel 5e balance is kind of slap dash as it stands, being used to 4e and this seems a very small difference in real terms the game has imbalanced feats and subclasses and many other things.

6 save is the mean by which the designer made sure that every character would have a weakness somewhere.

4ed was a special case where everything was balanced to the Nth level. I really liked this edition but it was not everyone's case. I do not want to start an edition war but 4ed was so balanced that every classes felt more or less the same.

Sometimes, as strange as it seems, there is balance in imbalance...

 

[Garthanos]

6 save is the mean by which the designer made sure that every character would have a weakness somewhere.

A weakness only casters can exploit yeah nope/ does everyone have vulnerabilities to one martial maneuver? or another nope never happen its very swingy imbalance in favor of casters surprise the revenge of the nerds edition.

 

[Garthanos]

Sometimes, as strange as it seems, there is balance in imbalance...

Again the edition is slap dash and this is a small imbalance you seem to think is overwhelming in importance and its overwhelmingly less than feat and subclass imbalances.

I really think your opinion of 4e balance is nonsense but its also not the subject so quit pretending its not edition warring while spouting the tropes of that.

 

[Helldritch]

A weakness only casters can exploit yeah nope/ does everyone have vulnerabilities to one martial maneuver? or another nope never happen its very swingy imbalance in favor of casters surprise the revenge of the nerds edition.

Grab attack and trip attack comes into mind. Shove with shield but to name only three
All have the potential of forcing concentration checks and put a caster at risks and a melee character has a lot of chance to not be affected at all. Yeah casters are clearly advantaged....

 

[Garthanos]

Sometimes, as strange as it seems, there is balance in imbalance...

Not really you are just claiming something else balances a focused area of imbalance. That rarely works as you cannot control the frequency of the assumed other area. For instance 1e considered it balance that a caster got nearly nothing to contribute for several levels (unless they won the spell lottery then the game of DM vs caster began early) and were awarded later by over shadowing others except and individual game table often never hit all the levels and instead only felt imbalance.

 

[Helldritch]

Again the edition is slap dash and this is a small imbalance you seem to think is overwhelming in importance and its overwhelmingly less than feat and subclass imbalances.

I really think your opinion of 4e balance is nonsense but its also not the subject so quit pretending its not edition warring while spouting the tropes of that.

You are talking to someone that has been defending 4ed quite heavily on this forum. Being honest in the strength and weaknesses of an edition is not the se as bashing it.

And for 5ed imbalanceds.
There not as imposing as they were in 3ed and 3.5ed. I vividly remember the infamous CODZILLA. 5ed is quite far from that. Very very far.

 

[Garthanos]

Grab attack and trip attack comes into mind. Shove with shield but to name only three
All have the potential of forcing concentration checks

Because very nearly all spells require concentration? Also "Potential" ? Do they or don't they?

 

[Garthanos]

And for 5ed imbalanceds.
There not as imposing as they were in 3ed and 3.5ed. I vividly remember the infamous CODZILLA. 5ed is quite far from that. Very very far.

CODzilla were definitely ridiculous and this is not the ediition where the Druids bear makes the fighter superfluous.
However they put +1 to 3 on an optional game feature things work fine with one person having a +1 item and someone else not (even in 4e) which makes it basically double the impact (ok not always if you count versatility) but still.