D&D 5E It's Official! Most of my encounters are "Deadly" (now updated with info through the end of 2022!)

[el-remmen]

Yeah, one or two encounters in a day are not uncommon in my games. Other times there are many more - the temple assault above was five encounters in about four hour's in-game time, six if you include the one they just straight up ran away from.

I honestly never think about encounter design from the perspective of character resources - like how much it will likely use up or not - but rather only ever on narrative and simulation. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the numeric approach, but my DM brain doesn't really work like that.

I'd be curious to know if anyone ever designs encounters with a possible variance based on what the NPC opponents are doing or not doing? I mean, who is to say the BBEG has access to all their abilities and spell slots when they happen to meet? Usually they do out of convenience - but I have had situations where I had to remember a villain had one less slot of a certain level because according to the plot (and outside of the PCs' sight) he had cast some spell for something and thus did not have it available for the final confrontation. These days, however, I find it a lot easier to use a Matt Colville approach to designed NPC opponents, just giving them whatever at-will, long and short rest abilities I want them to have and not bothering building them using the rules for a class.

 

[Xetheral]

I'd be curious to know if anyone ever designs encounters with a possible variance based on what the NPC opponents are doing or not doing? I mean, who is to say the BBEG has access to all their abilities and spell slots when they happen to meet? Usually they do out of convenience - but I have had situations where I had to remember a villain had one less slot of a certain level because according to the plot (and outside of the PCs' sight) he had cast some spell for something and thus did not have it available for the final confrontation. These days, however, I find it a lot easier to use a Matt Colville approach to designed NPC opponents, just giving them whatever at-will, long and short rest abilities I want them to have and not bothering building them using the rules for a class.

All the time. And usually my PCs factor that in to their strategy, either by trying to learn enemy spellcasters' rest patterns and timing their attacks when the enemy is low on slots, or else engineering a situation where the enemy will want to use lots of slots and then attacking them after that expenditure.

 

[Redwizard007]

3/4 of my encounters are "deadly," and I usually get 3 or 4 encounters in between long rests.

The biggest issue I've seen so far, is that lots of 4e style minions make encounters really swingy. My only character death so far was the half-giant barbarian strolling into the middle of a (known) ambush and getting peppered by crossbow bolts and squared up on by an enemy barbarian who was then polymorphed into a Trex. It was a good death.

 

[el-remmen]

Finally an update as yesterday the PCs finished my remix of Against the Cult of the Reptile God and received XP (getting to 6th level). Also managed the most encounters between long rests (or their equivalents) probably since I ran 2E.

Against the Cult of the Reptile God - part two (1E AD&D Adventure adapted to 5E)

Encounter #	Monsters (#)	# of (N)PCs / Levels	CRs	Difficulty
38​	Pelopia, New Constable, Guards (8)	2/5 and 1/3 + 1/5 and 2/4	4, 1/4, 1/8	Deadly*
39​	Cultists (5)	4/5 and 1/3	1/4	Trivial
40​	Grell (2)	4/5 and 1/3	3	Easy
41​	Guards (6), Giant Toads (2)	4/5 and 1/3	1/8, 1	Easy
42​	Cultist Elders (4), Cultist Guards (10)	4/5 and 1/3	1/8, 1/4	Easy
43​	Ash Jomgobbar (fighter), Ingmar Greeves (rogue), Meredith Grin (rogue)	4/5 and 1/3	5, 3, 3	Deadly
44​	Farrar Segundo (priest), Cultist Guards (4), Amphisbaena (2)	4/5 and 1/3	4, 1/4, 1/2	Hard
45​	Cultist Guards (2)	4/5 and 1/3	1/4	Trivial
46​	Troglodytes (4), Troglodyte Meatseeker	4/5 and 1/3	1/4, 2	Easy
47​	Troglodyte Scouts (2), Troglodytes (4)	4/5 and 1/3	1/2,1/4	Trivial
48​	Troglodyte Meatseeker, Troglodytes (4), Trog Juggernaut	4/5 and 1/3	2, 1/4, 3	Hard
49​	Bonesnapper	4/5 and 1/3	2	Trivial
50​	Spirit Naga, Trog Scouts (2), Trog Mystic, Crocodiles (3)	4/5 and 1/3	10, 1/2, 3, 1/2	Deadly
51​	Harpy	4/5 and 1/3 and 1/4	1	Trivial

Encounter 38 was a weird non-standard battle, thus the asterisk next to difficulty. The party was split two ways. The druid was dominated and helping the bad guys (some whom were also dominated) try and find the party. The barbarian and ranger/sorcerer along with their NPC cleric/monk ally led the bad guys away, while the gnome bard/wizard used his cloak of elvenkind to hide and touch base with some other very secretive potential allies. Eventually, the gnome and the new allies joined the fight in a hillock where the others decided to stage an ambush.

Thankfully, they were also able to break the druid's domination and win the day and he cast call lightning for the first time in his rage over being compelled. Pelopia, the prefect's warrior daughter, was stabilized and revived and she broke her domination too, she became an important ally in learning more of the cult's plans and winning over reticent townsfolk. Anyway, that fight started out difficult, but as the conditions changed, it became easier and easier.

Encounter 39 was later the same day after a short rest and the party mopped up some remaining cultists in town.

Encounter 40 was on the way to the cultist's swamp lair and was the only encounter they had in two days - except in a dangerous environment where they had no way of knowing how many more monsters they might face - so there was no "going nova" (always a mistake unless completely unavoidable, in my opinion).

Encounter 41 was complicated by the fact that the giant toads were excitable and one ended up swallowing on the guards that were ostensibly on the same side, when he tried to flee from the PCs - leading to one fight bleeding into the other with no break.

Encounter 42 may be technically "easy" but I would say it was more like medium - as the cultists made use of their knowledge of the layout and came in waves.

Encounter 43 was an ambush and thus actually hard and Encounter 44 was made easier because the PC found a secret passage they used to get the drop on the priest and his attendants. The party took a short rest between these fights.

They'd end up taking short rests after encounter 45 and 46 as well.

The bonesnapper (#49) was esp. trivial because it was chained by way of a collar and could not fight back, but it blocked the hallway and made a lot of noise to warn the big bad.

Encounter #50 was the climax and you can see photos from it in this post. And a video of the chamber's layout in a post I made earlier in that same thread. It took 13 rounds. Afterwards they took another short rest, and then found the harpy's lair (#51) on their way back to meet up prisoners they had freed and then had hole up "somewhere safe." This was also a non-standard encounter because they probably could have killed her easily, but they knew she was cursed into this form and had the means to break the curse - which they did, adding yet another NPC they needed to guide back to safety.

After that they took a long rest, holing up in the lieutenants' quarters which had a lockable door. So that was 11 encounters between long rests and they took four short rests in that time.

So there is more data - do with it what you will and I am happy to try and answer any questions.

 

[el-remmen]

Giving this a bump since I posted it on the weekend when things tend to be slow and I got the impression a few people were following this data.

 

[Stalker0]

If you add potentiall before deadly, you are closer to the truth.

If you know something about expectation value and standard deviation and you want to tell acoherent stroy without a constant change in cast, deadly should only have very low chance of lethality. If deadly would mean 20 Percent chance to kill a PC, would mean an average one character dead per adventuring day.
I think most people don't want that.

I think that's the issue with the name though. To me as a new DM of 5e, I took deadly to mean....you know.....DEADLY. Aka this was a "BIG FIGHT", the party was going to be in big trouble, etc.

But deadly really isn't, I consider it "hard" at best (and frankly not even then some times). Its just an expectation set, when you use the word deadly I expect this to be a big deal, but really its just another encounter in the book, nothing special.

What I really think 5e needs is a new category. Call it boss fight, call it hell difficulty, whatever. But something above deadly that actually is the level where I "expect" players to die, rather than there is a small possibility if things don't go there way.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Finally an update as yesterday the PCs finished my remix of Against the Cult of the Reptile God and received XP (getting to 6th level). Also managed the most encounters between long rests (or their equivalents) probably since I ran 2E.

Against the Cult of the Reptile God - part two (1E AD&D Adventure adapted to 5E)

Encounter #	Monsters (#)	# of (N)PCs / Levels	CRs	Difficulty
38​	Pelopia, New Constable, Guards (8)	2/5 and 1/3 + 1/5 and 2/4	4, 1/4, 1/8	Deadly*
39​	Cultists (5)	4/5 and 1/3	1/4	Trivial
40​	Grell (2)	4/5 and 1/3	3	Easy
41​	Guards (6), Giant Toads (2)	4/5 and 1/3	1/8, 1	Easy
42​	Cultist Elders (4), Cultist Guards (10)	4/5 and 1/3	1/8, 1/4	Easy
43​	Ash Jomgobbar (fighter), Ingmar Greeves (rogue), Meredith Grin (rogue)	4/5 and 1/3	5, 3, 3	Deadly
44​	Farrar Segundo (priest), Cultist Guards (4), Amphisbaena (2)	4/5 and 1/3	4, 1/4, 1/2	Hard
45​	Cultist Guards (2)	4/5 and 1/3	1/4	Trivial
46​	Troglodytes (4), Troglodyte Meatseeker	4/5 and 1/3	1/4, 2	Easy
47​	Troglodyte Scouts (2), Troglodytes (4)	4/5 and 1/3	1/2,1/4	Trivial
48​	Troglodyte Meatseeker, Troglodytes (4), Trog Juggernaut	4/5 and 1/3	2, 1/4, 3	Hard
49​	Bonesnapper	4/5 and 1/3	2	Trivial
50​	Spirit Naga, Trog Scouts (2), Trog Mystic, Crocodiles (3)	4/5 and 1/3	10, 1/2, 3, 1/2	Deadly
51​	Harpy	4/5 and 1/3 and 1/4	1	Trivial

Encounter 38 was a weird non-standard battle, thus the asterisk next to difficulty. The party was split two ways. The druid was dominated and helping the bad guys (some whom were also dominated) try and find the party. The barbarian and ranger/sorcerer along with their NPC cleric/monk ally led the bad guys away, while the gnome bard/wizard used his cloak of elvenkind to hide and touch base with some other very secretive potential allies. Eventually, the gnome and the new allies joined the fight in a hillock where the others decided to stage an ambush.

Thankfully, they were also able to break the druid's domination and win the day and he cast call lightning for the first time in his rage over being compelled. Pelopia, the prefect's warrior daughter, was stabilized and revived and she broke her domination too, she became an important ally in learning more of the cult's plans and winning over reticent townsfolk. Anyway, that fight started out difficult, but as the conditions changed, it became easier and easier.

Encounter 39 was later the same day after a short rest and the party mopped up some remaining cultists in town.

Encounter 40 was on the way to the cultist's swamp lair and was the only encounter they had in two days - except in a dangerous environment where they had no way of knowing how many more monsters they might face - so there was no "going nova" (always a mistake unless completely unavoidable, in my opinion).

Encounter 41 was complicated by the fact that the giant toads were excitable and one ended up swallowing on the guards that were ostensibly on the same side, when he tried to flee from the PCs - leading to one fight bleeding into the other with no break.

Encounter 42 may be technically "easy" but I would say it was more like medium - as the cultists made use of their knowledge of the layout and came in waves.

Encounter 43 was an ambush and thus actually hard and Encounter 44 was made easier because the PC found a secret passage they used to get the drop on the priest and his attendants. The party took a short rest between these fights.

They'd end up taking short rests after encounter 45 and 46 as well.

The bonesnapper (#49) was esp. trivial because it was chained by way of a collar and could not fight back, but it blocked the hallway and made a lot of noise to warn the big bad.

Encounter #50 was the climax and you can see photos from it in this post. And a video of the chamber's layout in a post I made earlier in that same thread. It took 13 rounds. Afterwards they took another short rest, and then found the harpy's lair (#51) on their way back to meet up prisoners they had freed and then had hole up "somewhere safe." This was also a non-standard encounter because they probably could have killed her easily, but they knew she was cursed into this form and had the means to break the curse - which they did, adding yet another NPC they needed to guide back to safety.

After that they took a long rest, holing up in the lieutenants' quarters which had a lockable door. So that was 11 encounters between long rests and they took four short rests in that time.

So there is more data - do with it what you will and I am happy to try and answer any questions.

Interesting.

I'm actually working on converting the last few adventures of 4E's Scales of War to 5E, and I'm kind of amazed at how difficult the encounters are there when converted. For example, A Tyranny of Souls is the adventure where the PCs are supposed to infiltrate Tu'Narath, sneak into the Githyanki Emperor's palace, and slay him.

Now, that description should probably make you think "20th level adventure." But the encounters, if strung together without a long rest, are probably too difficult for a party of 4 level 20 PCs. There is one fight for example with an arcanaloth and four maruts. Maruts in 5E are CR 25! So it requires a lot of stuff to be rebalanced to weaker monsters.

The truly crazy thing however, is there are another 6 adventures after A Tyranny of Souls. It's really an example of how 4E is balanced for way stronger PCs than 5E is.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

After 51 encounters, they have just gone from level 1 to 6, despite many of their encounters deadly?

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Without even using the calculator I can already tell my encounters are Deadly quite often. How? Since 2014 to 2020 when we last played, nobody has had a PC crest 7th level. One more at 6th, two at 5th and more as you go down in levels. So...yeah. "Deadly" seems to be the soup of the day. Then again, I primarily run 1e/2e adventure modules or my own created ones with the same amount of monsters, traps, tricks, etc as the 'official' ones.

As others have stated... it all really depends on soooo many other factors that, to me, the CR system (since it was created in 3e?) is mostly useless. I mean, "Yeah, we're using Feats and Multiclassing". POOF! CR system gets tossed right out the window and the DM is right back to thinking about the monsters capabilities and the adventuring party's capabilities to find a "balance". How many people use Feats and MC? ...

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[el-remmen]

After 51 encounters, they have just gone from level 1 to 6, despite many of their encounters deadly?

Whaddya mean "just?"