D&D 5E Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse

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dnd.wizards.com

Looks like Spelljammer and/or Planescape is back on the menu!

 

[Parmandur]

Now for proficiency vs. THAC0. In 2e only wizards went up so slow. They got +6 to hit over 20 levels. 2e Fighters got +1 to hit per level past level 1, so at level 20 their proficiency would be +19. Add in a +5 weapon, a 17 strength and specialization and they were swinging at +26 to hit. They could roll a 2 and hit AC -8. In 5e a 20th level fighter with a 20 strength. +6 proficiency and a +3 weapon still needs a 12 to in order to hit the AC of 26(-6).

What I'm curious about is, how does the math for getting +19 on one attack compare to getting +6-11 on four attacks?

 

[ad_hoc]

Yup, it's in the rules, all target DCs, including AC, have a strict cap of 30. That's the singularity point for difficulty thst sets the boundary of possibility. That's why Ability Scores also have a cap, to fit the math of the DC cap.

For adding variety, don't forget to use proficiency as a gate: such as only allowing the Paladin to roll Religuon checks when relevant if they are the only one to have Proficiency, or the Ranger & Barbarian to be the only one who can roll Survival in certain situations if nobody else has Proficiency.

I highly recommend against gating using proficiency.

That is a huge nerf to many characters and while still a setback to classes with more skills still a significant boost difference for them.

Ability scores should count for just as much as proficiency.

This isn't 3e with trained only skills.

 

[Maxperson]

Yup, it's in the rules, all target DCs, including AC, have a strict cap of 30. That's the singularity point for difficulty thst sets the boundary of possibility. That's why Ability Scores also have a cap, to fit the math of the DC cap.

For adding variety, don't forget to use proficiency as a gate: such as only allowing the Paladin to roll Religuon checks when relevant if they are the only one to have Proficiency, or the Ranger & Barbarian to be the only one who can roll Survival in certain situations if nobody else has Proficiency.

I don't see anything in either the PHB or DMG that says 30 is a hard cap. I see the DC chart goes to 30, but it does not limit the DM from going higher.

 

[Argyle King]

Yup, it's in the rules, all target DCs, including AC, have a strict cap of 30. That's the singularity point for difficulty thst sets the boundary of possibility. That's why Ability Scores also have a cap, to fit the math of the DC cap.

For adding variety, don't forget to use proficiency as a gate: such as only allowing the Paladin to roll Religuon checks when relevant if they are the only one to have Proficiency, or the Ranger & Barbarian to be the only one who can roll Survival in certain situations if nobody else has Proficiency.

Where is that stated about AC?

Not saying it's wrong; I simply don't know.

I've been in games where AC for a player's character is higher than 30. If I missed part of the rules, I'd like to better familiarize myself with that. It might solve some issues the group has had.

As far as the DCs... I'm aware there's a cap. I'm more looking at the possible skills and abilities a character can have.

 

[Parmandur]

I highly recommend against gating using proficiency.

That is a huge nerf to many characters and while still a setback to classes with more skills still a significant boost difference for them.

Ability scores should count for just as much as proficiency.

This isn't 3e with trained only skills.

It's a situational tool, but every printed Adventure in 5E has done it: it gives trained PCs a chance to be the star for a moment and do their thing.

 

[Maxperson]

What I'm curious about is, how does the math for getting +19 on one attack compare to getting +6-11 on four attacks?

It's not for 1 attack. A fighter with specialization was getting 5 attacks every 2 rounds. 2 attacks and then 3 attacks, then 2 attacks again. And they were doing so on creatures with less than half the hit points of 5e creatures. A 5e ancient green dragon has 385 hit points and an AC of 21, so the 5e fighter still needs a 7 or higher to hit, 12 if he's great weapon fighting. A 2e ancient green dragon has 94.5 hit points on average and an AC of -8, so the 2e fighter is auto hitting. The 2e fighter is doing 1d8+8(minimum) with 17 strength, +5 weapon and specialization. By 20th level he probably had gauntlets of ogre power or a belt of giant strength.

 

[bedir than]

Yup, it's in the rules, all target DCs, including AC, have a strict cap of 30. That's the singularity point for difficulty thst sets the boundary of possibility. That's why Ability Scores also have a cap, to fit the math of the DC cap.

Where is this?

 

[overgeeked]

Where is this?

It’s likely a poor reading of DMG, p238.

“A DC 30 check is nearly impossible for most low-level characters. A 20th-level character with proficiency and a relevant ability score of 20 still needs a 19 or 20 on the die roll to succeed at a task of this difficulty.”

This somehow means 30 is a hard cap.

 

[Maxperson]

It’s likely a poor reading of DMG, p238.

“A DC 30 check is nearly impossible for most low-level characters. A 20th-level character with proficiency and a relevant ability score of 20 still needs a 19 or 20 on the die roll to succeed at a task of this difficulty.”

This somehow means 30 is a hard cap.

It's not a hard cap, though. If you look at page 174 of the PHB, the DCs there(same as in the DMG) are described as "the most common DCs." That means that there are other DCs and it also makes no mention of any hard cap.

 

[Parmandur]

It’s likely a poor reading of DMG, p238.

“A DC 30 check is nearly impossible for most low-level characters. A 20th-level character with proficiency and a relevant ability score of 20 still needs a 19 or 20 on the die roll to succeed at a task of this difficulty.”

This somehow means 30 is a hard cap.

The 30 cap is mentioned elsewhere. As supporting evidence, I'll point to the absurd difficulty of even getting up to 30 AC (which makes it a soft cap at least), combined with the highest AC Monsters in the game being at 25 AC.