D&D General Do you prefer more or less Skills?

[Swarmkeeper]

Here here.

The cure: "just tell me what your character is doing and what they are trying to accomplish".

Nah, man. It's really annoying when I say something like "I would love to have an official option for a more lethal game" or "It would be nice if we had an official variant for limited cantrips" and people are like: "Yeah, just take this third party book or houserule it yourself".

Yes, I am well aware that I can do whatever in my own game, but believe it or not, some groups do care for what's considered official or not. Guess we are just weird...

Maybe you misread what I'm saying. If someone starts pressing buttons on a character sheet or doing a "can I role [X]", I just go back to the basics of the play loop in the PHB - particularly Part 2: The players describe what they want to do. And that means describe what your character is doing in-world.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Well I, for one, am for more skills. It's been too long since I got to roll a craft or profession check.

 

[Ogre Mage]

I like 15-20 skills. So 5E is in a good comfort zone for me.

 

[Nefermandias]

Maybe you misread what I'm saying. If someone starts pressing buttons on a character sheet or doing a "can I role [X]", I just go back to the basics of the play loop in the PHB - particularly Part 2: The players describe what they want to do. And that means describe what your character is doing in-world.

Ah yes. I keep having to remind them of the basics.
Angry has a nice article about that:

Dear Players: There’s a Better Way to Play

This isn’t for you GMs to read; it’s for you to print and hand to your players. That way, they can declare actions and play the game in a way that actually let’s you, you know, ru…

theangrygm.com

 

[overgeeked]

Ah yes. I keep having to remind them of the basics.
Angry has a nice article about that:

Dear Players: There’s a Better Way to Play

This isn’t for you GMs to read; it’s for you to print and hand to your players. That way, they can declare actions and play the game in a way that actually let’s you, you know, ru…

theangrygm.com

Huh. That's literally the second time I've ever agreed with anything he's said. Nice.

"A well-trained GM doesn’t think about the rules of the game – about die rolls and skills and stuff – until their brain has had a go at the situation first. They only use the rules when they absolutely need them. Brains before dice, right?"

"My point is that the minute you stop making organic decisions that the characters would make if they were real and the story was real, you’re ruining what makes the stories that come out of RPGs so great. You’re forcing them."

He sounds like he's sliding into the FKR.

 

[tetrasodium]

Huh. That's literally the second time I've ever agreed with anything he's said. Nice.

"A well-trained GM doesn’t think about the rules of the game – about die rolls and skills and stuff – until their brain has had a go at the situation first. They only use the rules when they absolutely need them. Brains before dice, right?"

"My point is that the minute you stop making organic decisions that the characters would make if they were real and the story was real, you’re ruining what makes the stories that come out of RPGs so great. You’re forcing them."

He sounds like he's sliding into the FKR.

What is FKR?

 

[overgeeked]

What is FKR?

Free Kriegsspiel Renaissance. Basically a push for rules ultralight that puts a primacy on the fiction of the game world (immersion, making decisions in character rather than based on rules, etc). Basically all that "don't think about the rules first, think about what your character would do as a living, breathing person in this world" stuff is one of the aims of FKR.

 

[loverdrive]

That would require decoupling skills and abilities, something D&D hasn't commit to do in favor of ease of use.

That I could never understand. I don't even understand where that "ease of use" comes from.

 

[Nefermandias]

I have this weird thing going on where in one hand I love robust systems and clear rules. They are great tools and they help making sure everyone is on the same page and that the game will be running fair and consistent.

On the other hand, I'm a firm believer in using the fiction and the environment to move the game forward. Call it brains before dice or even skilled play if you want.

I don't really think both things are in conflict with each other. That's also why B/X and 4e are (weirdly) my two favorite versions of the game.

 

[Minigiant]

That I could never understand. I don't even understand where that "ease of use" comes from.

It is easier for people to understand that Athletics is always tied to STR rather than it being sometimes STR, sometimes DEX, and sometimes CON.
It is also easier to map to a character sheet that way.

Decoupled skills is better in my mind but it is a lot tougher for new or tired players. And it would get annoying fast for DM to constantly have to remind players or field attempts to apply a skill to everything. Trust me.

That's why I am for a list like 5e's plus 5-6 more skills (Weighlighting (STR), Browbeat (STR), Endurance (CON), Etiquette (CHA) Streetwise (CHA)) as a base. Decoupling requires a more veteran playerbase and more attachment to backgrounds.