D&D 5E Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e


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overgeeked

B/X Known World
This is the same garbage as football having no win conditions within the infinite game of football. You can't win football because there's always the next match. You keep on playing.

Same nonsense, conflating the concept of D&D with actual play of games.
No. The rules of football are explicit on the win conditions of the game. There are none listed for the game of D&D. There are goals and missions and monsters for your character to complete or fight within the game. There are no win conditions for you the player to achieve.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
Okay, prove it's infinite. Name me someone who has run an infinitely long game of D&D.
You're conflating two uses of the word infinite.

Infinite here means that there are no clear win conditions or end points to the game. It does not mean infinite in the sense of eternal.

But if you want the closest we have to an eternal game of D&D, here's this DM. He's been running one game of D&D as long as I've been playing D&D. That's impressive.

 


No. The rules of football are explicit on the win conditions of the game. There are none listed for the game of D&D. There are goals and missions and monsters for your character to complete or fight within the game. There are no win conditions for you the player to achieve.
Again, you're just mistaking the finite game for the infinite game.

No win conditions in football.
 
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I'll post it yet again, just as a simple example, from the publishers of D&D.

The adventurer's best hope of defeating Strahd is to learn his secrets. Guided by Mada Eva's card reading they must scour his domain for magic items that might weaken or slay him.

The adventure ends when either Strahd von Zarovich or the characters are defeated.

No win conditions in D&D?

This game doesn't 'continue' - either players 'win' by 'defeating Strahd' or die trying ('lose').

Like the rest of the supposedly 'infinite' D&D littered with TPKs when the players died trying ('lost') instead of 'won'.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
D&D is the same - it's only the hokum of conflating an abstract usage (D&D) with a concrete one (this session / game / campaign of D&D) which creates the illusion of no win conditions.

It isn't that simple - D&D, with life-or-death stakes, task-focus and tactical orientation bring us to a naive conclusion that life, or success at some task, equals a win. But D&D is a game that's remained fairly close to its wargame roots, and we can look farther afield and find that the win condition is our choice, not defined by the game - Ten Candles is an example of this, in that the characters WILL DIE, and will not have any indication if anything the try to achieve before death will have an impact on the fictional world. It isn't a game about achievement, it is a game about what happens as you try.
 


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