D&D General No More "Humans in Funny Hats": Racial Mechanics Should Determine Racial Cultures

[Geoff Thirlwell]

Some halflings have +2 Dex; some halflings have +2 Strength; some halflings have +2 Con; some halflings have +2 Int; some halflings have +2 Wis; some halflings have +2 Cha" is diversity. Diversity is showing how individuals can be different.

i believe that the differences between the races is what makes them diverse. This includes both the race‘s special abilities and the PHB stat bonuses. Without these numbers being attached to the races, they are little more than numbers. The diversity of races is far more interesting than the diversity of a range of numbers. The physical and mental makeup of a race should lend it to be more suited for particular classes. It can be fun to play against your racial strengths but by removing racial strengths and weaknesses, it diminishes any sense of achievement of doing anything out of the ordinary as it is now the norm.

 

[Scars Unseen]

The idea is to replace the boring numbers with actual powers that matter and mean something like a minotaur's horns or a gnome's being terrible.

Except it doesn't have to be either/or. You can have a minotaur with horns, a charge attack, and increased strength. You can have elves that have magic affinity and a bonus to dexterity. And so on. Adding more points of distinction seems better to me than replacing one with another.

 

[Faolyn]

Irrelevant. What is discussed is if there is a game driven, mechanical requirement, codified in the rules at a fundamental level that says you need a 16 in your Primary Stat at level 1.

I propose, there is not.

And I already agreed that there is no such rule. The book strongly suggests you do this (when it makes Bruenor the sample character, who immediately puts his highest stats into Strength and Con), but there's no rule. Just like there's no rule that says that using the primary method of stat generation (rolling dice) is unbalanced.

Also: totally relevant, because you are insisting that because there's no mechanical "need," then it's only a want, which can be ignored because you apparently think other people's wants aren't important in this situation. Your want of racial ASIs can therefore also be ignored, because there's no need for them.

 

[Faolyn]

i believe that the differences between the races is what makes them diverse. This includes both the race‘s special abilities and the PHB stat bonuses. Without these numbers being attached to the races, they are little more than numbers. The diversity of races is far more interesting than the diversity of a range of numbers. The physical and mental makeup of a race should lend it to be more suited for particular classes. It can be fun to play against your racial strengths but by removing racial strengths and weaknesses, it diminishes any sense of achievement of doing anything out of the ordinary as it is now the norm.

Racial ASIs makes each race diverse (barely, since so many share the same ASI) at the expense of the individual members of the race.

And as you can probably tell from all of my earlier posts, I completely disagree with everything you're saying.

 

[Scribe]

And I already agreed that there is no such rule.

Then we have an accord.

Also: totally relevant, because you are insisting that because there's no mechanical "need," then it's only a want, which can be ignored because you apparently think other people's wants aren't important in this situation.

I've never said your wants are unimportant. I've said that its pretty foundational to this point for quite some time.

Your want of racial ASIs can therefore also be ignored, because there's no need for them.

Absolutely, and you have demonstrated disdain for anything I want for some time, so again, we agree.

I'm glad we can come to an understanding.

 

[Geoff Thirlwell]

The way 5e is going, I think I’ll actually be embarrassed to teach a newbie. It would probably go something like this…
Newbie “ Wow, look at this one, a Minotaur, I want to play something big and strong like that”.
Me “Erm, well you can be strong but you’ll be just as strong as this one”
Newbie “What, that kid with the hairy feet, how does that work, I’m massive”
Me “Well, erm actually you aren’t, despite what it appears like in the these pictures and these plastic figures, you are actually the same height as a human, as is this small kid with the hairy feet.”
Newbie “Er, alright. I’ve seen Lord of the Rings. I want to be like Legolas, live hundreds of years. I’ll have pointy ears, I won’t be like this big, well not big, Minotaur thing, all clumsy, I’ll be really good with a bow”
Me “Well, the Minotaur is just as good with a bow, you can have pointy ears but you won’t live longer than anyone else”
Newbie “Ok, screw that, I’ll be a Dwarf and I’ll go kill lots of Orcs and Goblins”
Me “Well, although he’s called a Dwarf, they aren’t actually shorter than the average human. You shouldn’t really want to kill Orcs and Goblins either as they might be quite nice people actually when you get to know them.
Newbie “I’m not playing this stupid game”.

 

[Arilyn]

The way 5e is going, I think I’ll actually be embarrassed to teach a newbie. It would probably go something like this…
Newbie “ Wow, look at this one, a Minotaur, I want to play something big and strong like that”.
Me “Erm, well you can be strong but you’ll be just as strong as this one”
Newbie “What, that kid with the hairy feet, how does that work, I’m massive”
Me “Well, erm actually you aren’t, despite what it appears like in the these pictures and these plastic figures, you are actually the same height as a human, as is this small kid with the hairy feet.”
Newbie “Er, alright. I’ve seen Lord of the Rings. I want to be like Legolas, live hundreds of years. I’ll have pointy ears, I won’t be like this big, well not big, Minotaur thing, all clumsy, I’ll be really good with a bow”
Me “Well, the Minotaur is just as good with a bow, you can have pointy ears but you won’t live longer than anyone else”
Newbie “Ok, screw that, I’ll be a Dwarf and I’ll go kill lots of Orcs and Goblins”
Me “Well, although he’s called a Dwarf, they aren’t actually shorter than the average human. You shouldn’t really want to kill Orcs and Goblins either as they might be quite nice people actually when you get to know them.
Newbie “I’m not playing this stupid game”.

No. This is not going to happen.

Floating ASIs are not the slippery slope to boring homogenous characters. I can use floating ASIs to make a strong or tough tiefling. That's logical. Or maybe a very scholarly dwarf. That's an image I like. Or I can use the floating ASIs to bump up that 8 and not get the 16 in a prime requisite. I have a fighter whose philosophy is balance of body and mind. I used floating stats to help build him. His strength is 14 and Con is 12. He eventually wants to have all stats be 14 or close to that. Or you can use the floating ASIs to make typical traditional race/class combos.

It means we all get what we want. Sounds like a good idea to me. Don't fear the power gamer.

 

[Older Beholder]

Actually, nevermind.

 

[Scribe]

It means we all get what we want.

It literally doesnt mean this.

 

[Scott Christian]

Fixed ASI is one knob.
The knob has been removed.
Now there are fewer knobs. For good or bad. But fewer.

@Crimson Longinus Making a race part of the subclass of a class would be interesting. I could see the dragonborn warlock getting some pretty cool dragonborn-ish invocations. It would definitely be a way to make the classes feel different, and still let the people turn a bunch of knobs on the race choice.