D&D 5E (2014) Sneak Attack with spells?

[lingual]

Sneak attack does not work with spells. Anyone who wants it to work with Toll of the Dead, Dancing Lights, or intense glares, go ahead. I think the OP was asking if the rules as written allow it.

 

[lingual]

If sneak attack on cantrips(or any spell that is) will break your game, then I suggest that you ban Wizards, Bards and Clerics from your game. Possibly Druids and Paladins also.

That's very helpful. So not allowing sneak attack damage on spells now means the game I run is broken?

 

[Maxperson]

That's very helpful. So not allowing sneak attack damage on spells now means the game I run is broken?

It was at least as helpful as, "Anyone who wants it to work with Toll of the Dead, Dancing Lights, or intense glares, go ahead."

If you're going to accuse someone of being unhelpful by posting something ridiculous, it's probably best that you not have done the same thing in the post just prior.

 

[ECMO3]

So RAW, spells are weapons, And if it is a ranged spell, meets the requirements for sneak attack

No they are not, because of this text: "The Attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon."

Using a weapon at range to make a ranged attack is not the same as using a "ranged weapon": A ranged weapon is a specific type of weapon identified in the PHB. Ranged Weapons are: Light Crossbow, Dart, Shortbow, Sling, Blowgun, Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Longbow and Net.

You can throw your longsword or hand axe at an enemy, that makes it a weapon used at range but not a "ranged weapon" and therefore not eligible for sneak attack.

A spell that is a weapon is neither a "finesse weapon" or a "ranged weapon" unless it specifically says so. For example, Shadow Blade says in the text of the spell that it has the "finesse" property, so that can be used for sneak attack because it is a "finesse weapon".

RAW the only cantrips I know of that is usable with sneak attack are Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade and only then if you use a weapon with the finesse property.

In terms of "Break the Game" a Rogue using a cantrip to sneak attack in tier 3 will put out substantially more damage than one that doesn't and this is true when using GFB or BB although that is limited to being used in melee within 5 feet and it is limited to one attack a turn. A Rogue using these can't use Two-Weapon Fighting, can't use extra attack if she is multiclassed and can't attack from beyond 5 feet. So she gets a substantial damage boost but with only 1 chance to hit and has to go into melee to do it. Further she can't use steady aim unless she is already within 5 feet and stays there.

For comparison if using Eldritch Blast with sneak attack a tier 3 Rogue will have 3 chances to land the sneak attack on his turn, eclipsing the TWF Rogue or even the multiclassed martial Rogue, with steady aim will be able to have advantage on one of the three attacks to boot and will do an extra 3 points of damage as compared to the current top tier which is using the cantrips noted above (with the limitations). That is quite a difference.

 

[Maxperson]

No it's 2d10 vs 2d8. All dice are multiplied.

You are correct.

There is another issue, though. If you're going to allow it with cantrips that don't involve physical finesse or ranged weapons, then sneak attack would also apply to ranged spells of 1st level and higher that also have attack rolls. There's no reason for firebolt to get sneak attack, but not scorching ray.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You can sneak attack with a net.

A. Net.

 

[ECMO3]

You can sneak attack with a net.

A. Net.

You can but a net by itself has no damage type so you get no extra sneak attack damage from it. This was covered in sage advice I believe.

If you have the Hex spell or an ability like dreadful strikes that does a specific type of damage on a hit I could see an argument for using that damage type for sneak attack damage though.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't know what the confusion is about, you can quite explicitly Sneak Attack with Green Flame Blade/Booming Blade, provided that the weapon you're using to do so is finesse. Yes, it has the potential to unbalance your game, but it's legal RAW. No, it wouldn't work for any other spell, unless the spell is explicitly a weapon attack with a ranged/finesse weapon (so, a Shadow Blade would work, but something like Firebolt or Steel Wind Strike wouldn't).

and what makes shadow blade/booming blade/sneak attack less worrysome then ray of frost/sneak attack?

the rules say one is legal the other isn't, but the one that is legal is byfar more powerful.

incase someone doesn't know shadow blade makes a finess melee 2d8 weapon that deals psychic.
booming blade has a melee attack that deals bonus thunder damage (after 5th level) and if target moves they take more.

so an Arcan tirckster at 9th level can use shadow blade, and booming blade to make a melee attack that deals 2d8+dex mod + 5d6 sneak attack +1d8 thunder, then bonus action disengage to move, if the target wants to get back in melee they move and take 2d8 thunder.

but an arcane trickster at 9th level can't use ray of frost to deal 2d8 cold damage, reduce movement, and 5d6 sneak attack... because balance?!?

 

[ECMO3]

and what makes shadow blade/booming blade/sneak attack less worrysome then ray of frost/sneak attack?

Several things:

1. It uses dexterity or strength for the attack roll.

2. It must be used in melee from 5 feet away

3. It can't be easily and repeatedly combined with steady aim.

4. The secondary effect of ray of frost (loss of movement) is automatic but the secondary booming blade movement damage is very difficult to inflict along with sneak attacl. To use booming blade you need to get within 5 feet of an enemy. The rules surrounding sneak attack are going to make it difficult for an arcane trickster to meet the conditions for the sneak attack and also land the secondary movement damage associated with booming blade.

5. Shadow blade uses a 2nd level spell slot, a bonus action to case and concentration and at 9th level it can only be used for a maximum of 1 minute a day.

Most tables will allow SB+BB combo however under strict RAW Shadow Blade can't be combined with the redesigned Booming Blade in Tasha's because a Shadow Blade is not "worth at least 1 sp."

 

[Mordhau]

You are correct.

There is another issue, though. If you're going to allow it with cantrips that don't involve physical finesse or ranged weapons, then sneak attack would also apply to ranged spells of 1st level and higher that also have attack rolls. There's no reason for firebolt to get sneak attack, but not scorching ray.

There's no reason you have to. It might seem arbritraty, but this is D&D, arbritrary rules for balance purposes is the name of the game.

Honestly, I don't think allowing it with spells is a big deal anyway. Arcane Trickstrs just don't have that many spell slots.

But I'd probably want to do some playtesting of that to see how it went.