D&D 5E Where's the Dump?

[DND_Reborn]

Back to the spreadsheet, then!

Here are the sets:

STR, DEX, CON
STR, DEX, INT
STR, DEX, WIS
STR, DEX, CHA
STR, CON, INT
STR, CON, WIS
STR, CON, CHA
STR, INT, WIS
STR, INT, CHA
STR, WIS, CHA
DEX, CON, INT
DEX, CON, WIS
DEX, CON, CHA
DEX, INT, WIS
DEX, INT, CHA
DEX, WIS, CHA
CON, INT, WIS
CON, INT, CHA
CON, WIS, CHA
INT, WIS, CHA

So, who gets what?

 

[Hussar]

AD&D ability scores often had a lot more to them than just combat stuff, but the real benefits didn't start to kick for most things until 15 or so. This was intended, so that if you happened to be lucky rolling your scores you got a special and uncommon benefit out of it. They still were clearly meant to represent different aspects of a person, as shown in their descriptions. You can say they didn't do that well, and you can even say that they never did that well, but you can't say they never did it all.

Dunno about the "lot more" but, that's more a quibble. The point being, the stats didn't actually represent anything. They were just kind of there and, since there were virtually no systems, other than combat, that actually referenced the stats, they didn't do much.

After all, other than bonus languages, what was the difference between a 6 Int and an 18 Int? Outside of combat, there was no difference between a 6 Dex and an 18 Dex. Both characters had the same movement speeds, could climb, swim or do anything else just the same and as far as the game was concerned, it just didn't make the slightest difference.

Unless you were a cleric, your wisdom basically made zero difference.

So on and so forth. I guess, "didn't do it well" and "might as well not have done it at all" isn't all that different to me.

 

[TwoSix]

STR, DEX, CON = Fighter
STR, DEX, INT
STR, DEX, WIS
STR, DEX, CHA
STR, CON, INT
STR, CON, WIS
STR, CON, CHA
STR, INT, WIS
STR, INT, CHA
STR, WIS, CHA
DEX, CON, INT
DEX, CON, WIS
DEX, CON, CHA
DEX, INT, WIS
DEX, INT, CHA
DEX, WIS, CHA
CON, INT, WIS
CON, INT, CHA
CON, WIS, CHA
INT, WIS, CHA = Wizard

Maybe that doesn't make perfect sense, but I like having fighter and wizard as the "pure physical" and "pure mental" poles. And divination and enchantment fit in well for WIS wizard and CHA wizard concepts.

 

[Hussar]

While I agree completely as far as the "major" bonuses were concerned, even the 7-14 range stuff changed things sometime for the "sub" items.

Examples: STR 7 vs STR 14
STR 7: -1 to hit, -150 cn WA, 1 in 6 OD, 0% BB/LG
STR 14: +0 to hit, +200 cn WA, 1-2 in 6 OD, 7% BB/LG

Not a lot of "big" stuff, but still can be meaningful.

INT only mattered on those numbers for Magic-Users.
WIS only mattered on those numbers for Clerics.
DEX only mattered for Thieves, Assassins, and Monks who had thieving skills.

CON was probably the biggest one: CON 7 vs. CON 14
CON 7: 55% SSS, 60% RS
CON 14: 88% SSS, 92% RS

Those are big jumps IMO.

And of course CHA didn't matter in AD&D anyway...

And the Con one only mattered if you died and were rezzed. A very corner case issue.

I think the point I was making isn't too far off base. The stats in D&D have never really been meant to simulate anything other than maybe combat?

 

[DND_Reborn]

STR, DEX, CON = Fighter

Or Barbarian?

I think STR, DEX, INT would be good for Fighter due to EK.

 

[TwoSix]

Or Barbarian?

I think STR, DEX, INT would be good for Fighter due to EK.

That could work, too. Although 20 classes opens up space for the "arcane half-caster" trope that gets tossed around here every so often.

Barbarians obviously have to be STR/CON/something. Dex is probably the best fit, since paladins should be STR/CON/CHA.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The stats in D&D have never really been meant to simulate anything other than maybe combat?

Well, STR directly modeled how much you could lift, so I wouldn't say never...

You even add the WA adjustment of +3000 cn (300 lbs) for 18/00 to get a max press of 480 lb. which IIRC was a bit over the world record back then.

Anyway, to be clear, I get your point, I just don't think it is as absolute as you feel it is. That's all.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That could work, too. Although 20 classes opens up space for the "arcane half-caster" trope that gets tossed around here every so often.

But for now since we don't have one...

Or

Barbarian as STR/CON/WIS isn't bad, allowing Barbarians to have WIS as a s focus due to Perception and Survival?

 

[TwoSix]

Take 2:

STR, DEX, CON = Barbarian
STR, DEX, INT = Fighter (with some tactical warlord/weapon expert flavor)
STR, DEX, WIS = Ranger
STR, DEX, CHA
STR, CON, INT =
STR, CON, WIS = Warden
STR, CON, CHA = Paladin
STR, INT, WIS
STR, INT, CHA
STR, WIS, CHA = Cleric
DEX, CON, INT = Artificer
DEX, CON, WIS = Monk
DEX, CON, CHA
DEX, INT, WIS = Avenger
DEX, INT, CHA = Bard
DEX, WIS, CHA = Rogue
CON, INT, WIS = Druid
CON, INT, CHA = Warlock
CON, WIS, CHA = Sorcerer
INT, WIS, CHA = Wizard

 

[DND_Reborn]

Take 2:

STR, DEX, CON = Barbarian
STR, DEX, INT = Fighter (with some tactical warlord/weapon expert flavor)
STR, DEX, WIS = Ranger
STR, DEX, CHA
STR, CON, INT =
STR, CON, WIS = Warden
STR, CON, CHA = Paladin
STR, INT, WIS
STR, INT, CHA
STR, WIS, CHA = Cleric
DEX, CON, INT = Artificer
DEX, CON, WIS = Monk
DEX, CON, CHA
DEX, INT, WIS = Avenger
DEX, INT, CHA = Bard
DEX, WIS, CHA = Rogue
CON, INT, WIS = Druid
CON, INT, CHA = Warlock
CON, WIS, CHA = Sorcerer
INT, WIS, CHA = Wizard

Well, the good news is we are solid on:

STR, DEX, CON = Barbarian
STR, DEX, INT = Fighter
STR, DEX, WIS = Ranger
DEX, CON, WIS = Monk
DEX, INT, CHA = Bard
INT, WIS, CHA = Wizard

6 out of the core 12 isn't bad for a start.

I don't allow Artificers so didn't add them, and have no idea what Wardens or Avengers are...

FWIW, I had:

STR, CON, WIS =Cleric (not Warden)
STR, INT, CHA = Warlock
STR, WIS, CHA =Paladin (not Cleric)
DEX, CON, INT = Rogue
CON, INT, CHA =Sorcerer
CON, WIS, CHA = Druid

Now, it probably isn't really important, but since I am a Libra and only did the core 12, every ability is used exactly 6 times.

So, with 6 locked, time for some compromises/discussions.