D&D 5E Should All Subclasses Be Gained at 1st Level?

[Lyxen]

Big fan of @DND_Reborn variant of faster class features, getting capstones at 10/11th level

I agree that, if you look at it, it's a bit bizarre to get one very interesting ability just when the game is almost over. But I choose to take it the positive way, which is that it incites you to go on with epic level play, with no more technical progression but the gathering of epic boons on the road to ascension.

 

[Horwath]

I agree that, if you look at it, it's a bit bizarre to get one very interesting ability just when the game is almost over. But I choose to take it the positive way, which is that it incites you to go on with epic level play, with no more technical progression but the gathering of epic boons on the road to ascension.

yeah, most campaigns end around 10-13th level, and you character just gets warmed up at 11th :/

from 11th level on, outside spellcasting progression I would be happy if it's just bonus proficiencies, bonus expertise and bonus ASIs(feats).

 

[Minigiant]

Maybe it's two different groups: one group wants all the toys immediately, and the second group wants all the toys spread out over 20 levels? But I bet there's a LOT of overlap in that Venn Diagram...

Three groups.

I want all the tier appropriate stuff at the tier thresholds and medians.

If subclass give huge character alteration and/or power, they should be given in the middle of the tier (level 3), not the start of it (level 1).

If your subclass is major and you get it at level 1, then it isn't a subclass... it's your class. You are just too afraid to add a new class to the game.

 

[Plaguescarred]

I prefer subclasses above first level to prevent frontloading classes to much and slow slow Multiclass power progression.

It also help continue to have more meaningful choice down the path as your character grow and progress.

 

[CleverNickName]

If your subclass is major and you get it at level 1, then it isn't a subclass... it's your class. You are just too afraid to add a new class to the game.

Afraid, no. Unwilling, yep.
I'm the fellow who wants there to be only 4 classes, with dozens of interchangeable subclasses.

 

[Minigiant]

Afraid, no. Unwilling, yep.
I'm the fellow who wants there to be only 4 classes, with dozens of interchangeable subclasses.

What's the difference between 2 dozen class and 4 class with dozens of specialized subclasses?

I mean if the subclass fundamentally alters the class so much, it no longer plays like the base class at level 1... is it even a member of that class anymore?

 

[Horwath]

Afraid, no. Unwilling, yep.
I'm the fellow who wants there to be only 4 classes, with dozens of interchangeable subclasses.

3 classes.

full caster
half-caster
non-caster

 

[CleverNickName]

I mean if the subclass fundamentally alters the class so much, it no longer plays like the base class at level 1.

I'm not sure I follow. Why would a subclass even need to fundamentally alter the base class so much that it no longer plays like the base class?

Let's say you have only four classes: Warrior ('martial focus'), Sneak ('skill focus'), Mage ('full caster'), and Priest ('half caster.'). These are the chassis that you will build your character concept on.

Now let's say that out of ten dozen different subclasses, you decide to go with Acrobat (the first one that came to mind, but it could be anything). If you choose the Warrior class, your Acrobat would be a martial focus and would feel more like a swashbuckler or skirmisher...but if you chose the Sneak class, your Acrobat would be more like a catburglar or ninja. If you chose the Mage or the Priest class, it would gain the appropriate amount of magical talent, making it feel more like a shadowdancer or assassin, or something entirely new.

 

[Minigiant]

I'm not sure I follow. Why would a subclass even need to fundamentally alter the base class so much that it no longer plays like the base class?

Let's say you have only four classes: Warrior ('martial focus'), Sneak ('skill focus'), Mage ('full caster'), and Priest ('half caster.'). These are the chassis that you will build your character concept on.

Now let's say that out of ten dozen different subclasses, you decide to go with Acrobat (the first one that came to mind, but it could be anything). If you choose the Warrior class, your Acrobat would be a martial focus and would feel more like a swashbuckler or skirmisher...but if you chose the Sneak class, your Acrobat would be more like a catburglar or ninja. If you chose the Mage or the Priest class, it would gain the appropriate amount of magical talent, making it feel more like a shadowdancer or assassin, or something entirely new.

Guy: I'm playing a cleric
Also Guy: My cleric can also turn into a bear 10 times a day, adds 50+ spells to his spell list, doesn't age. and fey and elemental stuff don't work on him

Gal: I'm a fighter
Also Gal: My fighter can fly into a rage 3 times, and when she does she is surronded by cold, and she moves fast, an her skin is steel, and don't wear heavy armor.

 

[CleverNickName]

Guy: I'm playing a cleric
Also Guy: My cleric can also turn into a bear 10 times a day, adds 50+ spells to his spell list, doesn't age. and fey and elemental stuff don't work on him

Gal: I'm a fighter
Also Gal: My fighter can fly into a rage 3 times, and when she does she is surronded by cold, and she moves fast, an her skin is steel, and don't wear heavy armor.

Ah.

Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about at all.