AnotherGuy
Hero
Love this - elegant!
D&D 5E Orcs and Drow in YOUR game (poll */comments +)
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Helldritch
Hero
In any, and I really mean any world where there are clerics, there are gods. Silent or not, subtle or not they will enact their will. Eberron is no different. You do not want gods? Remove the cleric class then. Leave the healing to bards and artificers (I would even go as far as to say druids are clerics of the god of natures as this was how they were viewed in the basic game and historically).
That you feel that mettling god is over used is of no consequence on the fact that they are there in the cosmology. The only way to remove their influence is to play in a world where there are no gods at all. It might also mean that there are no demons, devils, daemons and any of their outer plane ilks. This would limit the scope of the game you are playing but it would be the only logical way. For good or bad, gods are part of fantasy, even when silent and thus, can explain a lot of things people might not like or like.
Why? Wizards cast spells, bards and paladins (who get their power from their oath) can cast healing spells, artificers can revivify and cast restoration spells. There's only a handful of spells unique to clerics, but it's all just magic.
Gods are quite real in most campaign settings it does not mean they have to be real.
Veltharis ap Rylix
Legend
In Eberron, it is canonical that you can worship your shoe and still be able to cast cleric spells if you believe strongly enough. The power comes from the cleric's faith, not the object of that faith.
A source of divine power that clerics and other divine classes can tap into need not necessarily be embodied in the form of gods in the traditional sense.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Not just Eberron. That's been D&D Core for over 20 years now.
Thus tradition. Thus unassailable.
Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ (He/Him)
No, not all all.
Helldritch
Hero
That is why I said Eberron was a special case. But there are gods in Eberron nonetheless. Silent, yes. But they are there.
Historically,
Historically, as I was saying, faith alone would give you only 1st and 2nd level spells. So at best cure light wound at a whooping 1d8. To have any higher hopes of healing better, you needed a god (demi god would give you access to (up to) 5th level spells so cure critical wounds would be available and raise dead. And that was about the same until 3rd edition where Gods saw a bit less power to them so clerics did not need them as much...
Was it a good change? I personally would say no. But it did have the effect of allowing more concept, so in a sense it was not a bad change either. Unfortunately, it also caused the cleric to be removed from the sole province of the gods and so was the healing aspect. This allowed bards (may they all be hanged) to become healers just as druid were now, all of a sudden, as good as the clerics too in the 5ed.
This again brings the question: If clerics are not the best healers anymore, do we still need that class?
If not: Keep the fighting holyman to the paladin class and be done with the clerics then as they were supposed, originally, to be what templars were (and the paladin was a late addition in D&D, it came with the 1ed and not the D&D) and are not needed anymore.
If clerics are still relevant, then gods are there (depending on the setting, but base settings assume them). Not much more to say than that. And their presence (the gods) will explain a lot of things in the world.
Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ (He/Him)
Actually, that changed in 2e. You could have clerics of philosophies and such forth.
Helldritch
Hero
That change came in a non core book. So not everyone used that or cared about it.
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