D&D General What if Critical Role had stuck with Pathfinder? Or 4E?

[JEB]

Was preparing to sit down and watch Legend of Vox Machina, and this random "what if?" question popped into my head.

We know the CR folks started off with D&D 4E, and converted to Pathfinder, before converting again to 5E when the stream started. Suppose they hadn't? What if Matt Mercer and company decided to stay with one of their previous systems and broadcast that to the world?

Now, I think the chances of them sticking with 4E for the stream would have been remote - they converted to Pathfinder without that consideration in mind - but Pathfinder was somewhat more possible. But what do the rest of you think? And how might things have gone differently for D&D and the rest of the RPG industry if they had?

 

[Burnside]

Have they ever discussed their reasons for switching to 5E?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found Mercer explaining why:
Pretty much what you’d expect: 5E is much smoother at the table, especially with 8 players and with Pathfinder’s copious modifiers. Also, D&D had more brand recognition and would attract more viewers.

I think two things:

-Critical Role would still have been very successful, but somewhat less so and would have taken longer to catch on, due to the exact reasons Mercer identifies. Probably would never have gotten quite as big as it is now without switching to D&D at some point. But still viable.

-Pathfinder would be in a much, much better position today and have many more players.

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

Was preparing to sit down and watch Legend of Vox Machina, and this random "what if?" question popped into my head.

We know the CR folks started off with D&D 4E, and converted to Pathfinder, before converting again to 5E when the stream started. Suppose they hadn't? What if Matt Mercer and company decided to stay with one of their previous systems and broadcast that to the world?

Now, I think the chances of them sticking with 4E for the stream would have been remote - they converted to Pathfinder without that consideration in mind - but Pathfinder was somewhat more possible. But what do the rest of you think? And how might things have gone differently for D&D and the rest of the RPG industry if they had?

I'm not sure Pathfinder was somewhat possible either. Paizo might have supported them but not like WOTC.

Pathfinder, even with the new edition boosting their popularity again, is too obscure compared to 5E.

 

[overgeeked]

Was preparing to sit down and watch Legend of Vox Machina, and this random "what if?" question popped into my head.

We know the CR folks started off with D&D 4E, and converted to Pathfinder, before converting again to 5E when the stream started. Suppose they hadn't? What if Matt Mercer and company decided to stay with one of their previous systems and broadcast that to the world?

Now, I think the chances of them sticking with 4E for the stream would have been remote - they converted to Pathfinder without that consideration in mind - but Pathfinder was somewhat more possible. But what do the rest of you think? And how might things have gone differently for D&D and the rest of the RPG industry if they had?

If they'd stuck with 4E, a few of the characters would have been more effective in combat and there would have been fewer deaths. Matt seems to have taken a lot from 4E even having only played it for one session with the group before converting to Pathfinder long term. The world-building and cosmology of Exandria is almost copy and paste from 4E points of light and the World Axis. So I doubt any of that would change.

If they'd stuck with Pathfinder, then it's quite likely that Paizo would be the 800 lbs gorilla in the room rather than D&D. Likely they'd switch spots, income wise. Not sure how the cast would react to the issues that have been revealed about Paizo over the years. Nor the critters. Likely they'd have either spun off their own game from Pathfinder or switched to 5E at some point when the Paizo stuff was coming out. Spinning off their own game would likely be the result. Custom build for them and their table and the ways they like to play. If they'd done that, then CR would be the 800 lbs gorilla in the room. Or things would fracture and you'd see a lot more indie games in a lot better positions. Maybe the OSR would be the dominant player. Who knows?

 

[overgeeked]

I'm not sure Pathfinder was somewhat possible either. Paizo might have supported them but not like WOTC.

Pathfinder, even with the new edition boosting their popularity again, is too obscure compared to 5E.

5E's popularity is mostly due to Critical Role. So if CR had streamed Pathfinder games, then Pathfinder wouldn't be obscure. It would be the dominant d20 fantasy RPG.

 

[BRayne]

If they stick with 4e then at least the Vox Machina characters made in Pathfinder; Pike, Percy, and Keyleth are likely to be different, if not completely separate characters from the ones we've seen as there'd be no Sarenrae, no Gunslinger class, and Marisha Ray has mentioned that she disliked druid in 4e and wanted to give it another shot in a different system.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If CR stuck with 4E/Pathfinder? That would have been great IMO!

 

[nevin]

Was preparing to sit down and watch Legend of Vox Machina, and this random "what if?" question popped into my head.

We know the CR folks started off with D&D 4E, and converted to Pathfinder, before converting again to 5E when the stream started. Suppose they hadn't? What if Matt Mercer and company decided to stay with one of their previous systems and broadcast that to the world?

Now, I think the chances of them sticking with 4E for the stream would have been remote - they converted to Pathfinder without that consideration in mind - but Pathfinder was somewhat more possible. But what do the rest of you think? And how might things have gone differently for D&D and the rest of the RPG industry if they had?

I think you overrate their impact on D&D. Critical role rode the wave and it was beneficial to both but I don't think Critical role could have boosted pathfinder as much. The User base is too argumentative, too obsessed about balance and details. Those nerdy things aren't really fun for the majority of people.

 

[Seramus]

Critical Role is charismatic enough that they would have succeeded regardless of Pathfinder or 4E, but the amount of crunch would have done them no favors and just slowed things down.

There is definitely a market for that much crunch, but can you imagine the players on air counting each and every modifier? Insanity.

 

[Parmandur]

Was preparing to sit down and watch Legend of Vox Machina, and this random "what if?" question popped into my head.

We know the CR folks started off with D&D 4E, and converted to Pathfinder, before converting again to 5E when the stream started. Suppose they hadn't? What if Matt Mercer and company decided to stay with one of their previous systems and broadcast that to the world?

Now, I think the chances of them sticking with 4E for the stream would have been remote - they converted to Pathfinder without that consideration in mind - but Pathfinder was somewhat more possible. But what do the rest of you think? And how might things have gone differently for D&D and the rest of the RPG industry if they had?

If they had stuck with 4E or Pathfinder, Critical Role would not have taken off. Mercer did a Pathfinder one shot in stream once, and it was not good viewing (for the reasons he suggested in the video posted upthread).

5E's popularity is mostly due to Critical Role. So if CR had streamed Pathfinder games, then Pathfinder wouldn't be obscure. It would be the dominant d20 fantasy RPG.

That is demonstrably untrue: CR viewership is a tiny fraction of the 5E player base, and 5E was already a huge success by the time the stream started.