D&D General What if Critical Role had stuck with Pathfinder? Or 4E?

[Umbran]

And what is funny is that you don't understand that I absolutely don't care about that kind of "reasoning", not only in itself, but because you have (as usual on these topic) absolutely zero proof that anyone held them in the past or that they have any value in the present. Facts are facts, your personal speculations have zero value for me.

Mod Note:
If you don't want to engage with the points, maybe it is time for you to disengage. It isn't like standing there saying "No," is valuable to anyone.

 

[darjr]

again NOBODY had internal memos from WotC (at least not anyone shareing) and NOBODY has that inside info here... we are all speculating... when it comes to facts all we know is what WotC has given us (and hey it isn't like they don't have a reason to lie or misslead or withhold some) but what we have says every edition out performed the one before it...with 5e being the biggest to date.

No, the initial statement from Mearls himself. It’s not speculative.

Unless you think Mearls was lying or somehow just plain wrong, we know initial 4e PHB sales were greater than 3.0 and 3.5. At least that’s how I see it.

 

[Remathilis]

yeah 100%... TBH it is why I was (and am) so disappointed in the direction 5e took. 4e needed more work, a new edition with a few years of playtestting could have worked out alot of the kinks

it was a goodish system out the gate, based on the best idea's I have heard in years... it just got better with each errata and update. I don't think it was ever a bad system... it just was a half baked cake.

You're right. I amended my original statement. It wasn't bad, it was flawed. The issue was by the time the flaws were ironed out (and to me, that was Essentials) it was too late. I've held a quiet belief that if the Essentials design elements had been incorporated in the beginning, and if the math had been better adjusted, 4e would have had longer legs. Basically, 4e needed two more years of design work.

 

[HammerMan]

But note that those facts are initial sales. That at least we know.

yes... only facts we have is that each edition outsold the one before. thats it. We also know that PF was second place until WotC dropped it's book schedule then when compareing 7-10 books to 1 they slightly out sold the 1. WotC stopped supporting 4e, begain supporting Next, that turned to 5e (wait does it say 5e anywhere on books?) and we now have the big resurgences.

those are the facts.

 

[darjr]

yes... only facts we have is that each edition outsold the one before. thats it. We also know that PF was second place until WotC dropped it's book schedule then when compareing 7-10 books to 1 they slightly out sold the 1. WotC stopped supporting 4e, begain supporting Next, that turned to 5e (wait does it say 5e anywhere on books?) and we now have the big resurgences.

those are the facts.

I’m trying to be precise here. Those are not the facts.

Initial sales.

That phrase is important.

It does not mean overall. It does not mean that each edition outsold the last in total.

I see people stating that as a fact and not only is it not based in any statements or internal numbers other factors may show it may not be true.

 

[Lyxen]

here is 1 quote

and that is 2....

want me to look for a 3rd time you did it?

Will you please learn to read ? Again, in these quotes what is inflammatory ? 4e working on grids and clear rules makes it easier to implement it on computers. Simple fact, and these can be considered qualities in a game if that is what you are looking for in it.

And yes, Solasta is a computer game, again, what is inflammatory about that ? It's not even a 4e game ?

 

[HammerMan]

No, the initial statement from Mearls himself. It’s not speculative.

Only about the pre order and first year of 4e... that;s it. Anything else is speculation.

Unless you think Mearls was lying or somehow just plain wrong, we know initial 4e PHB sales were greater than 3.0 and 3.5. At least that’s how I see it.

I think (not 100% sure) that representing a company that is a sub of hasbro he can not out right lie. I do think he CAN mislead and give half truths... but I have no reason to think he did. He isn't a big lawyer or CEO...he is a gamer like us..

wait... does anyone know if he is a rules lawyer in home games?!? if so that may change my thoughts (THIS IS A JOKE)

 

[darjr]

@HammerMan I do realize I might be picking nits or splitting hairs too.

 

[darjr]

Only about the pre order and first year of 4e... that;s it. Anything else is speculation.

I think (not 100% sure) that representing a company that is a sub of hasbro he can not out right lie. I do think he CAN mislead and give half truths... but I have no reason to think he did. He isn't a big lawyer or CEO...he is a gamer like us..

wait... does anyone know if he is a rules lawyer in home games?!? if so that may change my thoughts (THIS IS A JOKE)

That’s a good point, even I have taken his statement to meant initial sales. Instead of just in Pre-Order.

And no, I dint think He was being misleading in anyway, I think He was excited and happy and wanted to share the great news without crossing some internal policy about sharing numbers.

I laughed cause I think he’s the opposite.

 

[HammerMan]

what is inflammatory ?

stating that the game that 'video gamey' is used as an insult toward would work better as a viedo game

4e working on grids and clear rules makes it easier to implement it on computers.

it also used role playing and open world with lots of improve (including tables to help the DM adjudacate said improv) that no game I have seen or heard of can do.

Simple fact, and these can be considered qualities in a game if that is what you are looking for in it.

and if you take the DM and improv out ANY D&D game can be a video game