D&D 5E Vecna's Dread Counterspell vs. Subtle Spell (a simple poll)

[Parmandur]

Agreed. That seems to be the design direction for all the caster-monsters in Witchlike and Monsters of the Multiverse - leave a couple of high-flavor & usability spells once a day, and have a few spell-like action/reaction for general use.

Also, Fizban's, Strixhaven, Ravenloft, and Call of the Netherdeep, for that matter.

 

[Parmandur]

Great point.

And if you'll notice this feature replaces the three 3rd-level slots it had prior for using counterspell:

View attachment 252469

Yes, they gave an improved and spooky Counterspell for these stat blocks.

 

[Parmandur]

I really, really, REALLY, REALLY think they just chose the phrase "that is" instead of "in the process of" simply because they didn't want to use the same phrasing.

Like subclass features:

• Beginning at Xth level
• When you reach Xth level
• Starting at Xth level
• After you reach Xth level
• and so on...

... are simply different phrases that all are saying the same thing.

Until JC or some other "authority" for 5E indicates otherwise, that is just the way I am going to rule it at our table.

But that’s bot what the sentences say: they clearly indicate that only the caster needs to be seen, not the casting. That they did it twice is no accident.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Good catch! Yes, the Alhoon clearly does not need to see the casting, just the caster.

Not again...

Yes, they gave an improved and spooky Counterspell for these stat blocks.

Not again...

But that’s bot what the sentences say: they clearly indicate that only the caster needs to be seen, not the casting. That they did it twice is no accident.

Not again...

Get it? Probably not.

 

[Maxperson]

It actually is pretty broadly useful.

Sure it's broadly useful, but we know that it's purpose cannot be avoiding counterspells, because it doesn't conceal material component use. If the purpose was to avoid counterspells, then there would be no visible material component use.

 

[Parmandur]

Not again...

Not again...

Not again...

Get it? Probably not.

We have the text and what it says, which is clear.

 

[Maxperson]

We have the text and what it says, which is clear.

Yep. The text is clear. The intent is not. I choose to go with the text, because Vecna and big bad scary undead casters. Other can choose not to go with the text, because they believe the intent is for those abilities to be like counterspell.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Nice move, P, quoting me and then blocking me, so you'll think I won't see it.

Well, you can "have your text" all you want. Anyone who is so obsessed with analyzing the text to that level... well, anyway. Enjoy your game.

Yep. The text is clear. The intent is not. I choose to go with the text, because Vecna and big bad scary undead casters. Other can choose not to go with the text, because they believe the intent is for those abilities to be like counterspell.

Exactly.

But, alas, my words shall fall on deaf ears...

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

But, alas, my words shall fall on deaf ears...

no, I have a good ear for people who are wrong

 

[DND_Reborn]

no, I have a good ear for people who are wrong

I guess you don't.