D&D General How to make a villain not look stupid when players foil their plans repeatedly.

[Voi_D_ragon]

Basically, I'm planning a campaign where the party immediately comes into direct contact with the BBEG's minions and from then on proceeds to keep getting dragged into the various steps of their "I'm going to destroy the world" plan and stopping them.

The problem is, if the party stop every step, fighting the big bad a the end has little stakes, since they know they've been able to foil him all along, so there isn't really even the threat of his master plan happening at all.

On the other hand, if the villain advances their plan no matter what the party does, then the players feel cheated and without agency.

What can I do to make sure the villain steadily becomes more dangerous and able to initiate higher level adventures for the PCs without having the PCs fail the objectives of the adventures they're playing?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Respect.

Have them acknowledge the smart things the PCs did and correct the flaw they exploited in the previous plan.

 

[billd91]

Depends on the master plan. Try to have a plan going that has multiple threads to it - PCs may encounter/have a chance to thwart some threads but not others. So the master plan can advance in some ways until the PCs have enough power to take the initiative and take him on more directly.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Another option is to pull something like The Light from Young Justice where they've maneuvered things so that a failure is still a minor win that furthers their plan.

So like they failed to summon the demon lord, but managed to gain an infernal contract out of the deal, or they failed to obtain the McGuffin, but now they've learned how to use it when they do get it, or managed to kidnap an NPC connected to it on the way out.

 

[payn]

If the master plan is a series of events, instead of a sequence, then the PC's failing can happen and the story remains interesting. If the players keep figuring things out and thwarting repeatedly, you need to step it up in your adventure writing. Let the players enjoy their earned victories, and learn to make tougher challenges for the future.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Yeah if the plan wants two steps to be done around the same time in very different areas, than the PCs can only stop one of them.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Another option is to pull something like The Light from Young Justice where they've maneuvered things so that a failure is still a minor win that furthers their plan.

So like they failed to summon the demon lord, but managed to gain an infernal contract out of the deal, or they failed to obtain the McGuffin, but now they've learned how to use it when they do get it, or managed to kidnap an NPC connected to it on the way out.

Yeah. The villain should also be allowed to fail forward.

 

[Umbran]

The problem is, if the party stop every step...

So, don't have them stop every step. There's no particular reason for the party to even know about everything the villain has going on, much less the ability to stop all of it. The PCs can hear about some of the villain's moves after the fact.

 

[Stormonu]

As above, having multiple schemes or approaches at once means it's unlikely ALL of them will fail.

Alternatively, the villian can set up a couple situations where, if the PCs win, they actually advance the villians true plot ("Ah yes, the fire demon you slew. Little did you know that he had linked his soul to the nearby volcano, which is now unleashed and usable for my unstoppable forges!", or "the Palpatine conundrum" - helping the bad guy by taking out his likewise [evil] enemies).

 

[Ancalagon]

The PCs may not always succeed?