D&D 5E Is 5E Special

I think that a tremendous amount of 5e’s success can be attributed to the advent of live streaming games. If it had come out just 5 years earlier, I don’t think it would have had nearly the success it has now. But, 5e was also much more streamable than previous editions. I don’t think Critical Role could have happened with 3e or 4e, even if they had come out when 5e did. 5e is undoubtedly the most accessible edition WotC has published, and that’s a big part of what has allowed it to take advantage of being in the right place at the right time better than I think other editions would have done.
 

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Yes it is. It has the right mixture of new and old, accessibility (for the 20th time) and optimizability. I think neither 4e nor 3e would have hooked all the people 5e does.
But of course the outward circumstances are also perfect: nerds have won and have kids of their own.
 


Teeeeeeechnically, us gen xers WATCHED Revenge of the Nerds. It was brought to us by the Boomers. ;)
I contend that a lot of that boomer-created cringe in the 80s and 90s is behind much of the GenX-made apologies popular with younger audiences now. Remember, the generation before you -- the one between you and your parents, largely -- makes the art you grow up on.
 

This is a question about the popularity of D&D right now, more than being a question about any specific element of 5E.

It boils down to this: if it wasn't 5E (pick a different edition, it doesn't matter) but all the other circumstances were the same -- a new edition in 2014, references in the media, Critical Role and streaming in general, etc... -- would D&D still be having a major pop-cultural moment?

In other words: is there something special about 5E that created this moment, or does it "just happen to be" that 5E is the current edition?
Yes. It’s special.

If it was less accessible it would be less popular.

If it was more simplistic, more long term players would be less involved. They did it right.
 

I think it is less about the rule system itself (though its accessibility is important, as others have noted) and more about the minimalism of the product roll out, and the emphasis on story and adventure first and foremost.
 

I think I disagree with the consensus here, I largely think 5e is successful in spite of its design, which indicates that it does probably have a bit more to do with the confluence of: nerd culture mainstreaming, critical role, build up of general fans over the prior handful of decades, a build up of people who were conditioned towards its tropes by video games already, and the coming of age of a fairly solid portion of teenagers who were very into OC roleplaying and fanfiction and such.

I don't think 5e is particularly accessible and I've seen people get really frustrated trying to learn it at my own tables over the years (prior to pf2e coming out in 2019 we did 5e for quite a few years), its very common to come across mass handwaving of the rules, a lot of cultural infrastructure designed to weaken the culture of play the game was designed for, and a lot of emphasis on shifting individual games, which actually indicates to me that the game would be doing better if the people playing it didn't have such an uphill battle. On the flip, I see a lot of animosity towards it from more veteran players who joined the hobby in on the boom a few years back, whose honeymoon period with the system itself ended-- there's still a lot of investment there, but the salt levels have risen considerably in places like r/dndnext

I don't know how much better any given prior iteration of the game would have done, or if there's a particular game outside of 5e I would point to-- I think some of the problem is that different parts of the 5e player base probably need to go in different directions, and of course, that doesn't even include all the people that bounced off the game when they decided to give it a shot.
 

Nes. Yo.

5e isn't particularly special in most ways, and it's gotten a HUGE leg up because:
Tons of free advertising, like this is impossible to overstate how beneficial free advertising is
The rise of the "podcast" era making D&D "actual play" podcasts a cultural phenomenon
Not releasing at the start of a recession which caused the closure of one of the US's largest booksellers, but rather at a time when the economy was doing rather well
Major change in the cultural zeitgeist, where nostalgia for old-school nerdiness is in like Flynn
The "hopepunk" subgenre taking root

I'm sure I could list more. Point being, literally zero of these things have anything to do with 5e.

But @Ruin Explorer has the right of it: 5e is accessible to players relative to past editions, and is the second-most DM-accessible edition yet (it's a massive step down from 4e, but still a major step up from 3.x or any edition of TSR D&D.) Accessibility was the characteristic 5e needed to have in order to capitalize on all that free attention and cultural zeitgeist. Essentially, the designers got lucky by choosing the right characteristic for the time.

If we consider a world where, for example, the 2007 recession never happened, 4e released a year later to fix issues of polish and presentation, and there wasn't a horrific murder-suicide that devastated the digital tools team, things could've ended up incredibly, almost unbelievably different. Imagine that, in this world, WotC actually made a VTT--and not just any VTT, but a good VTT, one coded to be flexible so you could build integration for older editions. A VTT that pre-empted the rise of Roll20. Now, also imagine that WotC didn't shoot themselves in the foot, and instead negotiated a solid licensing deal with Paizo, who launches their Golarion setting as the premier, WotC-VTT-supported alternate setting for 4e D&D, with Paizo embellishments and rules alterations integrated as standard. Pathfinder as a game system never happens in this world. WotC becomes the primary source for VTT options, and expands outward, turning that VTT into something flexible and modular, creating rules packages that (eventually) allow you to play a Chainmail game or a 4e game or a campaign for any edition between them.

In a world like that, where all the rules minutiae gets swept under the VTT rug and WotC doesn't create their own successful opposition, 4e would still be going strong today (or might have gotten a 4.5e/"merged in errata and fixes" update around 2016, with a prospective shift toward a "new, streamlined" edition in 2024 to line up with the 50th anniversary.) It would be accessible, not because the rules had been made any more or less opaque, but because you could offload all bonus-tracking and number-crunching to the computer, and just play what you want. There would, of course, be people who complain about "having" to use the digital tools to play the game, but with the massive spike in internet- or computer-based play, those voices would almost certainly be outweighed by those who find the official VTT just too useful to pass up. And, with WotC actually supporting older edition play (with a subscription, naturally), they could even openly claim the "big tent" perspective.

This is, of course, a pie-in-the-sky dream. It's me wishing away all the problems, expecting WotC to show extreme foresight and accurately predicting both the problems they ran into with 4e and the successes others were about to have and jumping on them first. But we're already talking about an idealized world where other editions get the same level of massive attention and hype that 5e got by accident, for free. It doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

Keep in mind: even at 15 million players (roughly half what 5e has allegedly achieved), a $10 a month DDI sub would translate to 10*15*12 = $1,800,000,000 yearly income from DDI alone. If 4e had managed to pull in numbers like that? Hell yes, it would have survived. It would have been hailed as the greatest success D&D has ever seen, bar none, hands down, no question.
 

I think I disagree with the consensus here, I largely think 5e is successful in spite of its design, which indicates that it does probably have a bit more to do with the confluence of: nerd culture mainstreaming, critical role, build up of general fans over the prior handful of decades, a build up of people who were conditioned towards its tropes by video games already, and the coming of age of a fairly solid portion of teenagers who were very into OC roleplaying and fanfiction and such.

I don't think 5e is particularly accessible and I've seen people get really frustrated trying to learn it at my own tables over the years (prior to pf2e coming out in 2019 we did 5e for quite a few years), its very common to come across mass handwaving of the rules, a lot of cultural infrastructure designed to weaken the culture of play the game was designed for, and a lot of emphasis on shifting individual games, which actually indicates to me that the game would be doing better if the people playing it didn't have such an uphill battle. On the flip, I see a lot of animosity towards it from more veteran players who joined the hobby in on the boom a few years back, whose honeymoon period with the system itself ended-- there's still a lot of investment there, but the salt levels have risen considerably in places like r/dndnext

I don't know how much better any given prior iteration of the game would have done, or if there's a particular game outside of 5e I would point to-- I think some of the problem is that different parts of the 5e player base probably need to go in different directions, and of course, that doesn't even include all the people that bounced off the game when they decided to give it a shot.
I think the issue is, no edition of D&D has ever been really accessible. 5e is more accessible than most, unless you're really keen on concise jargon, in which case maybe 4e was more accessible. But certainly every edition before 4e was emphatically not accessible. Remember how some people complained about the removal of THAC0 because it meant folks could learn how to play more easily? There was long a badge of honor mentality regarding D&D play, that people had to earn the right to be D&D players. That attitude has largely been expunged from the hobby, much to its benefit.
 

I think that a tremendous amount of 5e’s success can be attributed to the advent of live streaming games. If it had come out just 5 years earlier, I don’t think it would have had nearly the success it has now. But, 5e was also much more streamable than previous editions. I don’t think Critical Role could have happened with 3e or 4e, even if they had come out when 5e did. 5e is undoubtedly the most accessible edition WotC has published, and that’s a big part of what has allowed it to take advantage of being in the right place at the right time better than I think other editions would have done.
Bit of trivia on CR*. Matt ran their first home game in 4E as a oneshot fo Liam. When they decided to do a continuing home game, they switched to Pathfinder. When they were approached to do a stream, they switched to 5E because it was more streamlined and they felt it would present better.

So CR promoted 5E because of the same factors that I believe contribute to it's success.

*I know this has been mentioned before, I think it's still relevant.
 

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