D&D 5E Is 5E Special

[Parmandur]

Most of the information written in natural language was clear.

But if you look at the "What is wrong with 5e" thread, a common opinion is 5e has a lot of missing info and a lot of mechanically useless info.

Some of those complaints seem to be more discomfort with making rulings, but thatwhat makes D&D different from highly procedural electronic games. The human touch of playing by ear.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I did see young people play D&D on their own. I came home on day with my 6, 7, and 8 year old cousins sprawled on my living room floor with my 4e core books screaming "Twin Strike!" The 6 your DMing by reading the many 4e charts for everything.

Because everyone learns differently. My baby cousins understand colors and charts and got Green powers, Red Powers, and Black Powers, that Brute are melee with low AC and high HP, and the DC for level 1 were.

But the part that I was stressing is that 4e Essentials is not the same as 4e Original and Natural Language is not a substitute for clear information.

Allof the 5e accessibility was excellent. However the "You can change up things at your table" and "You DMcan alter things" ideas were serverely hampered because theguts of the systemwere not clearly explained. It was a community effort of breaking down 5e and getting it to shift to different styles of play like sword andsorcery,epic fantasy, hardcore tactics, silly roleplay, etc. The community covered 5e's butt when people grew experience and wanted to tailor the game to their preferences.

I liked 4e essentials. But it was too little too late.
Was twin strike still in 4e essentials?
I don't really remember. I thought martial characters didn't have at will powers anymore, but I could be wrong.

Still, only because 4e essentials did it ok, does not mean 5e didn't do ok also.

Yes, as I often said: the DMG could have been better and hopefully is overhauled. I think it stems from the playtest and everything that did not go to PHB went to DMG as option or additional information.

I also think the PHB has backgeound and class backwards...

That does not mean it is not any less playable for someone without experience.

The starter set was no that bad. It falls down if the DM uses better tactics for enemies as those that are recommended in the module, resulting in TPKs. I think new players don't risk death at the first encounter. With the goblins. 2 of them go into melee. The DM is not supposed to use the bonus action hide to shoot with advantage all the time.

 

[Minigiant]

Some of those complaints seem to be more discomfort with making rulings, but thatwhat makes D&D different from highly procedural electronic games. The human touch of playing by ear.

Actually the common ones are less about making rulings and more about making rulesets.

5e was published originally with few exploration mechanics and few social mechanics. And what was printed is counter or invalidated but 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells There's nothing to spend treasure on. There's little info on how to use monsters. There's little info on how to build adventures nor campaigns. There's little info on running a party and the roles within.

So if you do anything beyond simple hack & slash and pick the locks, you need to be a previous gen vet or have to watch a youtube video.

I liked 4e essentials. But it was too little too late.
Was twin strike still in 4e essentials?
I don't really remember. I thought martial characters didn't have at will powers anymore, but I could be wrong.

My 6 year cousin was DMing original 4e with pokemon cards and legos as minis
I should have never gave my aunt a key to my apartment.

 

[Imaro]

Actually the common ones are less about making rulings and more about making rulesets.

5e was published originally with few exploration mechanics and few social mechanics. And what was printed is counter or invalidated but 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells There's nothing to spend treasure on. There's little info on how to use monsters. There's little info on how to build adventures nor campaigns. There's little info on running a party and the roles within.

So if you do anything beyond simple hack & slash and pick the locks, you need to be a previous gen vet or have to watch a youtube video.

This is just flat out false... with the exception of there being a lack of things to spend gold on.

 

[Oofta]

Actually the common ones are less about making rulings and more about making rulesets.

5e was published originally with few exploration mechanics and few social mechanics. And what was printed is counter or invalidated but 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells There's nothing to spend treasure on. There's little info on how to use monsters. There's little info on how to build adventures nor campaigns. There's little info on running a party and the roles within.

So if you do anything beyond simple hack & slash and pick the locks, you need to be a previous gen vet or have to watch a youtube video.

Or ... I don't know...do like we did when we were kids. You make it up as you go along. Probably do some things that will make you groan later but you still have fun, you learn and you grow. It's not like older editions had some magical tutorials that you could read and instantaneously become a master DM.

There is no way to get the kind of sustained growth we see if the game was not easy to pick up. Attempts to systematize social and exploration encounters in 4e practically killed RP and creativity in the games I was part of that used skill challenges. Everything became roll playing instead of role playing.

Before 4e? There was a scattershot of advice, some of it useful but most of it ignored in my experience. For example in 3.x you had set DCs based on type of wall. But that just meant that every time someone needed to climb a wall the DM just made up something or had to hunt down that specific chart. Hit something that didn't have a chart (there were never enough charts) and you were back to winging it.

You can never have clear and concise rules to cover every eventuality. I have yet to see, or read about, a social system flexible enough while also being engaging that I would want to use more than the DM making judgment calls. The stories we tell are only limited by our imaginations, detailed rules have only ever gotten in the way.

 

[Haplo781]

I am 100% confident we will see changes in 2024 that the ~20% of fans who were around before 5e launched will be at best divided over, and at worst united against, in order to adapt 5e to the 80% who are newcomers with none of the preconceptions, prejudices, or received wisdom. I cannot with any confidence predict exactly what those changes will be, nor whether they will be changes I personally like. But I am completely certain such changes will occur, specifically because 5e is not and never was even remotely close to perfect, neither in general nor in the specific context of 2014.

It'll consist of Wizards rooting around in 4e's bathwater looking for the baby they threw out.

 

[Shardstone]

Exploration in 5E is only boring if you rely on mundane exploration challenges. I know that's the vibe for a lot of people, but in a magical world, you need magical challenges for your players, environmental or otherwise. Starvation isn't an enemy...unless the atmosphere of this blighted landscape makes all magical food poisonous to eat. Getting lost isn't a problem, but that doesn't mean that sudden natural disasters can't change the landscape so you can no longer find where you're going.

I think a big issue people have with exploration is that they think that exploring for adventurers should involve all the same dangers as it does for us. But I'm not a barbarian who can become resistant to all kinds of mundane damage, or a fighter who can catch my second wind and rally from death as if it were nothing, and I certainly can't cast any spells. Ye olde rope bridge, you might fall, is only interesting now if there's something else associated with it, be it a magical disaster, an enemy, losing something, etc.

 

[Parmandur]

So if you do anything beyond simple hack & slash and pick the locks, you need to be a previous gen vet or have to watch a youtube video.

It's Dungeonw & Dragons, yes.

 

[Minigiant]

This is just flat out false... with the exception of there being a lack of things to spend gold on.

cast goodberry, now they don't starve.
Cast tongue, now they don't need languages
cast tiny hut, now they don't need safe camps
Oh a few pages of monsters who are a sack of hp and have no advice to make fighting them interesting
Of a few pages of monster that if I actually use tactics, I TPK the party

Here come the Youtube videos, Twitter comments, and Reddit posts on how to get my players to engage in the world

 

[Parmandur]

Oh a few pages of monsters who are a sack of hp and have no advice to make fighting them interesting
Of a few pages of monster that if I actually use tactics, I TPK the party

The "sack of HP" isn't big or laziness, it's an intentional design choice.