D&D 5E Is 5E Special

[Warpiglet-7]

Absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt. Well I am not sure the public playtest is necessary or even helpful, but if it had the rest....

_
glass.

Interesting! I wonder what game we would be anticipating in lieu of 5.5 if that were true.

That sounds like a comic book “what if” but it’s an interesting thought.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Considering how much entertainment value you get per dollar of investment, I see no reason to believe that economic factors affect how many people play the game. Get the basic rules, borrow a PHB, maybe have the group chip in for the DMG and MM. Split up, the cost is less than a night at the movies.

actually studies show that when economic turn down ward and there is a financial issue you find movies books and games go up not down in sales... when you don't have much you spend what little you do have on entertainment.

if anything this covid crisis was a boon to hasbro and wotc

 

[glass]

Interesting! I wonder what game we would be anticipating in lieu of 5.5 if that were true.

That is an interesting question. The other question is, if 4e was published later to coincide with the various positive externalities that 5e benefited from, what else would have been published for 3.5 in the meantime?

_
glass.

 

[Eric V]

Not at all.

You can’t possibly think that being a teacher makes you unbiased and automatically correct.

8 years do not, generally, have trouble with 5e D&D.

So...it's true I am not immune to bias. No one is.

Except...you? Because that's how your reply is coming off. That's the arrogance, and if that's how you're going to speak to me, kindly add me to your ignore list, please and thank you.

For everyone else talking about 6 and 8 year olds playing D&D...how did it come to pass? Did you hand them the PHB and tell them to make a character, and they made an accurate one ready to go at the table? Did someone else make the character for them, and all they had to do was engage with their imaginations and remember to "roll high?" During play, did someone (who has cognitive abilities above the average 8 year old) do the heavy lifting when it came time to engage with some of the game's more demanding aspects?

 

[Nightfly]

Some points:

1. Not every class even had the AEDU structure.
2. Even amongst those that did, class features added powers and other mechanics outside that structure.
3. Even ignoring that, the powers that fitted into that structure do different things.

For you talking point to be accurate, none of those things could be true. But they all are.

Argh. You made me actually fish out my 4e PH to make sure I wasn't misremembering things. I wasn't. I'm looking at the book right now: fighters have At-Will, Encounter, Daily, and Utility Exploits. Wizards have At-Will, Encounter, Daily, and Utility Spells. Yep, that's the same! I'm aware that Essentials gave variant rules years later to optionally break out of that structure, but still, my fundamental point is valid.

I'm conceding that 4e had amazing balance between classes. I'm just saying that it achieved that amazing balance through a mechanism that most of the community, rightly or not, finds unacceptable. (Even 13th Age, which is kinda sorta 4.5e, doesn't have nearly that same uniformity). It's easy to balance fighters with wizards when fighters have spell-like abilities, and the same number of them as wizards have spells. It's even easier when you "solve" tricky spells like Wish by just cutting them out of the game completely. 5e manages to be pretty balanced without doing things like that, and that's the only point I'm trying to make. If you say 4e is even better balanced...well, I agree, but there was a price to pay for that which most players were unwilling to pay. 5e has by far the best balance of any edition that has traditional class setups.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Thats not what modular is. You are talking about character options. Modular would include things like tactical combat system, social combat system, exploration system, etc.. None of that ever materialized. To be fair, 5E was a hit so they never had to go back and do it. Though, it left plenty of folks disappointed they couldn't do their 2E,3E,4E player all at the same table (what a pipe dream).

I think that we are talking about different things when it comes to modularity. You are talking about alternate systems that can be plugged into play, whereas I think others are talking about a pared-down design philosophy that “leaves space” to add alternate modules without having to worry about having to change 10 elements when you only care about changing one.

As examples of your definition of modularity, I would cite magical items, renown, madness, chases, gritty healing rules and the piety system in Theros.

With respect to the second definition of modularity, I find it relatively easy to bolt on relationship systems and strongholds without having to modify 5e’s core structures.

 

[Imaro]

Absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt. Well I am not sure the public playtest is necessary or even helpful, but if it had the rest....

EDIT: On reflection, if we were stuck with Keep on the Shadowfell that would hurt 4e. If 4e could have kicked of with an introductory adventure as good as LMoP is reputed to be (I have never played it myself), that would be the final piece of the puzzle.

_
glass.

Interesting... you don't think things like the length of combats or the structure of including everyone in a skill challenge would have impacted things like the CR stream, especially since one of the reasons they moved to 5e was to streamline and speed up their play?

EDIT: I honestly wonder if 4e would have negatively impacted their stream and those who watched it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

As examples of your definition of modularity, I would cite magical items, renown, madness, chases, gritty healing rules and the piety system in Theros.

With respect to the second definition of modularity, I find it relatively easy to bolt on relationship systems and strongholds without having to modify 5e’s core structures.

these are what I think of when I say modular... and relationships are in Strixhaven

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Interesting... you don't think things like the length of combats or the structure of including everyone in a skill challenge would have impacted things like the CR stream, especially since one of the reasons they moved to 5e was to streamline and speed up their play?

EDIT: I honestly wonder if 4e would have negatively impacted their stream and those who watched it.

TBH as a MAJOR 4e stan, I think that the length of combats was one of if not the biggest issues 4e needed to work on. I don't see why skill challenges default including everyone is any more or less an issue then the assumption (that every edition has) that every player is in every combat challenge.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I would like to know why the only time people talk about 'consequences' in terms of D&D is in the context of negative ones for the players for enjoying things wrong.

Edit: Wrong thread. This was meant to be posted in the identical thread.