D&D 5E Heat Metal Spell. Unfair to Heavy Armor Wearers?

[Oofta]

It's related to why you play and what you feel your role is as GM.

Generally speaking, I "play to find out" and my role is to do my best to provide a dynamic, interesting, and internally consistent world for the players to interact with. Barring con games (they are a special case) I am NOT there to entertain the players. Nor am I there to tell a story. As far as fun goes, we are all there to support everyone's fun. In my games, and explicitly articulated to the players, part of that fun is the dice fall where they may (ie no fudging) and villains play for keeps.

I have no problem challenging players.

However I was responding to the assertion that it had to be a made up worst case scenario. I can easily think up a dozen reasonable scenarios that would not be deadly encounters [according to my CR calculations] that would very likely kill a PC. Or at the very least make for a boring fight.

How do I know it would be boring? Because I've been on the receiving end. Early on in 5e I had a guy playing a bard. He'd spam heat metal every encounter against enemies in metal armor. The enemy rarely hit, was easily knocked prone. Meanwhile the bard just ran away to the max distance (+15 feet) for whatever other spell they'd cast. Bonus action do a little damage while granting disadvantage, cast something, back up 15 feet. If the enemy tried to close, just run.

All you have to do to ensure the scenario is stay away from the scrum of the fight.

 

[Reynard]

I have no problem challenging players.

However I was responding to the assertion that it had to be a made up worst case scenario. I can easily think up a dozen reasonable scenarios that would not be deadly encounters [according to my CR calculations] that would very likely kill a PC. Or at the very least make for a boring fight.

How do I know it would be boring? Because I've been on the receiving end. Early on in 5e I had a guy playing a bard. He'd spam heat metal every encounter against enemies in metal armor. The enemy rarely hit, was easily knocked prone. Meanwhile the bard just ran away to the max distance (+15 feet) for whatever other spell they'd cast. Bonus action do a little damage while granting disadvantage, cast something, back up 15 feet. If the enemy tried to close, just run.

All you have to do to ensure the scenario is stay away from the scrum of the fight.

In certain playstyles, "boring" is good. Ie if you aren't worried you are in control and succeeding. Obviously that's not how everyone plays and 5E in particular lends itself to set piece battles where characters can nova and be super cool, but if you are doing a crawl or other "combat as war" style game, a tricksy bard with heat metal is just what the cleric ordered.

 

[SkidAce]

Does your DM not use humanoid spellcasters? No human wizard NPCs in your games for instance? Red Wizards just...not a threat?

I think Heat Metal is only on the bard, druid, artificier list.

 

[Oofta]

In certain playstyles, "boring" is good. Ie if you aren't worried you are in control and succeeding. Obviously that's not how everyone plays and 5E in particular lends itself to set piece battles where characters can nova and be super cool, but if you are doing a crawl or other "combat as war" style game, a tricksy bard with heat metal is just what the cleric ordered.

I regularly run combats where the PCs are neither in control nor guaranteed to succeed. I try to avoid boring, I can't imagine why anyone would make that a goal.

In any case, feel free to nerf your heavy armor PCs even more. Just don't be surprised when every PC that could wear heavy armor is dex based.

 

[Reynard]

I regularly run combats where the PCs are neither in control nor guaranteed to succeed. I try to avoid boring, I can't imagine why anyone would make that a goal.

In any case, feel free to nerf your heavy armor PCs even more. Just don't be surprised when every PC that could wear heavy armor is dex based.

Half my regular players wouldn't notice, and the other half have already planned multiple contingencies against such tactics.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I have no doubt that if I wanted to kill a low-to medium level PC with heat metal I easily could. Walk away, lock door. Misty step away. Cast the spell from a rooftop. Be riding a horse or flying mount and ride fly away.

But it would suck. Not just the damage but the disadvantage. It would not be fun for the target so I don't. I try not to be a dick as a DM.

EXACTLY.

Do you see what I'm saying now? This is only a problem if the DM wants to be a totally massive, as you put it "dick".

They need to set up an ambush on the PCs, arrange the scenario so their guy can get away (something they have 100% power over, as this is D&D, they can make up whatever scenario, however far-fetched, that allows it), and then cheese the hell out of it. The solution is: don't do that!

I can easily think up a dozen reasonable scenarios that would not be deadly encounters [according to my CR calculations] that would very likely kill a PC. Or at the very least make for a boring fight.

Also agree 100%. I was immediately think of annoyingly positioned archers and the like lol.

Somewhat skeptical of Reynard's claims. Really strikes me as one of those would have to see it to believe it scenarios. But also, if he's running it coldly fair (which seems like a key tenet of that dungeoncrawl approach), that "tricksy Bard" is having to make Perception checks of his own to even find/know about the party, Stealth checks to try and sneak up on them, Initiative rolls to try and beat them to the punch, and so on, so the odds of "Tricksy Bard" successfully pulling this off, and not accidentally "sneaking" right past the party's Rogue or Ranger, who then ambushes ol Tricksy themselves, or otherwise falling afoul of the party are extremely low. Again, thus not a real problem because the most likely result by far is "RIP Tricksy Bard! You didn't even get to cast a spell ".

It's only a "real problem" with jerk "Killer" DMs who set up outrageous and unfair scenarios just to harass the hell out of their players/PCs that this is a true menace (which is honestly what Mistwell seems to be describing being done to him - I presume it's at least semi-consensual but I hope they have a safe word!).

 

[Oofta]

The real issue I have with heat metal is not just that it does damage and grants disadvantage. It's that it only applies to one style of character.

Imagine if you had a "heat blood" spell that worked the same way, but could target any living creature while dropping the requirement for metal armor. I still wouldn't like the spell, but at least then it would be fair.

 

[billd91]

The real issue I have with heat metal is not just that it does damage and grants disadvantage. It's that it only applies to one style of character.

Imagine if you had a "heat blood" spell that worked the same way, but could target any living creature while dropping the requirement for metal armor. I still wouldn't like the spell, but at least then it would be fair.

I don’t consider it unfair, particularly since it’s so iconic for the class that eschews metal armor. I’d take it off every spell list except druids and maybe some kind of Celtic-influenced blacksmith class (were one to exist).

 

[Quartz]

I… uh… now want to make full plate grappling reckless rage NPCs.

I thought that while you can Rage in heavy armour you don't gain any of the benefits?

 

[darjr]

I thought that while you can Rage in heavy armour you don't gain any of the benefits?

Monster.