D&D 5E How do you define “mother may I” in relation to D&D 5E?

[Malmuria]

As a 5e player, it comes up in two places
1. understanding relations of space when using theater of the mind
- it's difficult to describe a space, individuals within that space, and their various movements. The fact that so many abilities refer to precise distances does not help. So you get into a situation where the dm has a very clear map of what's going on, but from a player perspective you just keep asking "can I do x" based on your (incorrect) understanding of what the rooms looks like and where people are. Same, to a lesser extent, of exploring a location without a vtt.

2. the ambiguity of what a skill check is
- it's not written this way, but I feel it's natural to interpret the die roll on a skill check not just as success/failure, but the quality of success/failure, even if that's just narrative. In addition, I think it's easy for a dm to call for a check without actually setting a hard dc in their own mind, or even considering what a success might look like. So there's sometimes a gap between rolling really high and yet getting a mediocre result.

in the middle somewhere is ‘I’d love if we might actually run into some undead so i can use my priest’s turn undead or the plot would go to my ranger’s favoured terrain’

try this:

Stars and Wishes

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[el-remmen]

Here is an example, not taking for an existing game, for discussion;

1. Seductive; spend an inspiration point to gain advantage in a social situation where the NPC finds your character attractive.
2. Unusually attractive: spend an inspiration point to gain advantage in a social situation by exploiting your good looks.

So, the first example is a mechanic that relies, obviously, on GM interpretation. The player will always have to ask if it is applicable. The second example, is just a mechanic the player can activate when they have the currency and everyone knows how it works. There is no condition for the second mechanic. Folks sensitive to MMI would likely prefer the second mechanic.

Thanks for the very clear examples.

 

[tetrasodium]

All of the situations I can remember that have come up in games that I would call "Mother May I" tend to come from a breakdown in playstyles. Specifically, when the DM at the table wants characters to act in character and the players want a mechanical benefit.

I have two main examples that end up contributing to this phenomenon the most. The first is Find Familiar (and other pets, I suppose) using Help to grant advantage on something. I've had tables in the past that will ask "can I get advantage from Fluffles," and then when the DM asks "how is Fluffles helping you leap this 15 foot gap?" the players will kind of get huffy about it. 'Just give me the advantage, jeeze,' they seem to say.

The other, very similar contributor is the Guidance cantrip for almost identical reasons. "How are you guiding in this moment? Are you ok with the guard you're trying to persuade being very put off by you walking by, chanting mystic words and doing wiggle fingers toward the person he's having a conversation with? Are you aware that this isn't a reaction and needs to be cast before I call for a roll?" These are all questions that are met with similar frustration by a certain subset of players, who begin to feel that they're asking for permission to "just play the game."

Some tables don't run into the MMI problem at all, in my experience. It only comes up when there's mismatched expectations.

I see that a lot. The other time I see it badly (and more often) is when a player thinks they found some kind of punpun loophole rules interaction if they can just get a favorable enough tooling on x to feign misunderstanding if they get caught using it in conjunction with Y

 

[Smackpixi]

I dnno how I define it, but when it comes up, I usually just say, ”sure, you can try, roll a d20”…and often don’t even know the DC. “Oh what’s that, 15+3?” “uh, yeah, that succeeds”.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'm not sure. I'll have to ask my DM.

 

[overgeeked]

So it sounds like it’s largely a question of quantity, granularity, etc of rules and how much interpretation of those rules the referee is expected to do. With more rules, the less interpretation expected of the referee, the less some will complain of mother may I. Conversely, with fewer rules, the more interpretation expected of the referee, the more some will complain of mother may I.

Is that right?

 

[payn]

So it sounds like it’s largely a question of quantity, granularity, etc of rules and how much interpretation of those rules the referee is expected to do. With more rules, the less interpretation expected of the referee, the less some will complain of mother may I. Conversely, with fewer rules, the more interpretation expected of the referee, the more some will complain of mother may I.

Is that right?

Sounds good.

 

[overgeeked]

Sounds good.

That's what I thought. So it's simply one's preferences for heavier rules and less referee authority couched in a snide dismissal of the reverse preference, i.e. rules light games and referee authority-based play.

 

[payn]

That's what I thought. So it's simply one's preferences for heavier rules and less referee authority couched in a snide dismissal of the reverse preference, i.e. rules light games and referee authority-based play.

Like many of these derogatory remarks, they do contain legit concepts. Its just a very clear flag planting of where the person's line in the sand is. My advice is to either ignore the insult and focus on the example and discussion, or just ignore the comment if it seems like a position stand in place of any genuine interest of discussion.

 

[overgeeked]

Like many of these derogatory remarks, they do contain legit concepts. Its just a very clear flag planting of where the person's line in the sand is. My advice is to either ignore the insult and focus on the example and discussion, or just ignore the comment if it seems like a position stand in place of any genuine interest of discussion.

At least you admit that it's meant as derogatory and an insult. That's more than most.