D&D 5E D&D Next playtest post mortem by Mike Mearls and Rodney Thompson. From seven years ago.

[darjr]

Isn’t there already a mechanic for a smart fighter, not using intelligence but something else to give advantage?

 

[Minigiant]

The issue is there was no attempt to equalize ability scores as the packets were too wide and the concept runs counter to having a simple base system.

Would you be okay with a wizard using strength to cast spells?

That's how mele touch spells used to work.

 

[Haplo781]

I would presume based upon the three posts you both made that Ancalagon was under the impression that in order for a person to play a fighter that "interested" them that was not at a disadvantage against a traditional fighter meant that both fighters had equal levels of standard fighter abilities (STR, DEX, CON) while the "interesting" fighter also had a high CHA (or whatever it was that made it "interesting".) And in that regard... then yes, if the "interesting" fighter was equal to a traditional fighter and got to raise a mental stat really high... then there would be no reason to play a traditional fighter.

But that's just not doable. If you take Standard or Point Buy into account when creating your PC... you can't give a fighter a high mental stat while also being equal in physical stats. You have to sacrifice at least one of the physical stats by a point or two in order to bump your mental one.

Although really... how big of a sacrifice are we talking here? If you wanted to make a charismatic fighter and even with using Standard Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8)... you put put your +1 in STR and your +2 in CHA and you can get a PC that is STR 16 / DEX 13 / CON 14 / INT 8 / WIS 10 / CHA 14. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this character. Unless of course the player is going to complain about being a point or two lower on WIS saves than they might otherwise want to be. But that's then the player putting game mechanics ahead of character concept-- wanting their cake and eating it too. But in that regard that's just too bad... there's no requirement that says every PC is to be fully up on all possible defenses against all possible attacks while also having their creative "interesting" abilities as well.

You want a charismatic fighter... you might have to be less intelligent and/or be 5 or 10% worse on WIS saves than your traditional fighter build might be. Or maybe have your WIS boosted too, but have no DEX. It's all choices. But there's no fighter out there that will be strong, charismatic, and have really good DEX / CON / WIS saves... unless the DM has PCs roll for ability scores and the player lucks out.

Stormwind Fallacy go brrrr

 

[Retreater]

Would you be okay with a wizard using strength to cast spells?

For me - I'd be okay with using Wisdom for spells (Cleric) or Charisma (Warlock, Sorcerer, Bard).
And then there were specialist mages in 2e, requiring a variety of high ability scores to qualify. (None of them were Strength, however.)

 

[Oofta]

There are only so many tropes, common imagery and typical "look and feel" for classes to fit. You don't expect this guy

to be a better fighter than this guy

The visuals, and the art that supports the game matter.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So roll your stats and put the top 3 in wisdom, charisma, and whichever dex or str matches the weapons you wield. Doesn't sound like a punishment to me.
Or do you mean having to deal with trade-offs is a punishment because you can't work it to get everything you want at it's highest levels possible?

it means the 1 thing the class gives you (damage in combat) gets traded for being 3rd or 4th best else were.

 

[James Gasik]

Would you be okay with a wizard using strength to cast spells?

Well one of the 3.0 Psion subclasses could do so, and there was an Illumian sigil that let you use Strength for your magic, so it's not like there isn't precedent. It is a little unusual, but then there's Flex Mentallo, so why not?

Actually, reading one of my old campaign documents, I remember working on a system where races wouldn't be pigeonholed as being only good at certain classes (back in the days when flexible ability bonuses weren't the norm). It always bothered me that, say, Orcs had huge Strength but terrible mental stats, yet we're told Orcs have shamans, witch doctors, and priests of Gruumsh and other Orc gods that featured prominently in their culture.

Or how most people weren't likely to play Gnome Fighters, despite the fact they surely exist.

So I was trying to make alternate racial traits for the races in that campaign to make less obvious choices more viable. For example, I had a strong race with a trait called "Power of the Titans" which let them add their Strength bonus to one damage roll of a spell.

Also, as for the hulking warrior trope, let's not forget that many pulp action heroes were noteworthy for being very intelligent and cunning- Conan, Lord Greystoke, John Carter, and of course, Doc Savage.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I'd like Intelligence to have an impact on physical combat. Watch the boxing match from the first RDJ Sherlock Holmes film, where he invokes the "awesome by analysis" trope to predict not only what his opponent will do, but comes up with a strategy to defeat his opponent in the most efficient way, including a diagnosis for the injuries he deals.

Seems to be an Intelligent warrior should be better than a dullard, right?

in the real world being smart can make you a much better warrior, having a high will power and perception can give you an edge over stronger foes... in this game not so much

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Isn’t there already a mechanic for a smart fighter, not using strength but something else to give advantage?

is there?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

There are only so many tropes, common imagery and typical "look and feel" for classes to fit. You don't expect this guy
View attachment 261419
to be a better fighter than this guy

View attachment 261418

The visuals, and the art that supports the game matter.

unless that 1st guy is trained to use speed and cunning... then he can totally take the 2nd.

Heck if the 2nd guy is a body builder larper and the 1st is an MMA fighter soldier I would bet on smaller every time