D&D General Did 5e 2024 Not meet the economic goals set, and if not, why not?

[tetrasodium]

When you played D&D before
Couldn't look you in the eye
You just like to roleplay
Your champion fighter makes me cry
You just like the fluff
And the lore of the campaign world
I wish I was special
Gonna make my character so special

But I'm a creep
I'm a powergamer
What the hell am I doin' here?
I don't belong here

I don't care if pun-pun is lame
I wanna have control
I’m gonna play the perfect game
It won’t matter what I roll
I want the DM to notice
When my PC is not around
So friggin' special
My multiclassed optimized PC is special…

But I'm a creep
I'm a powergamer
What the hell am I doin' here?
I don't belong here

I'm not sure what you are attempting to convey here but the double meanings in Kyoka's poem about cups probably says more about the downsides of what happens when power scaling goes awry in ways similar to power creep crashing into an ongoing campaign

Awakened from peaceful sleep.
By Jōkisen,
Just four cups of it
Make one unable to sleep at night
it's not about cups

 

[GreyLord]

WotC is basically 100% of Hasbro profits at this point in time, revenue does not really matter as much...

It's presently a large chunk, but I wouldn't say 100% of the profits. It's a lot though, and very significant.

Also, though D&D is important to Hasbro and WotC, I wouldn't say it's a bigger part of the pie than MtG. MtG is the real crown currently of WotC. WotC also has other departments currently though, and we'll see how D&D does being promoted as a brand rather than just a department.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm not sure what you are attempting to convey here ...

Are you familiar with cats? How sometimes, they will be just sitting there, doing absolutely nothing, chilling in a room.

And then sometimes, for absolutely no ascertainable reason, they leap up and run to another room?

So you watch that, and you think to yourself, "Self, what happened? What was the motivation of that cat?"

Well, I am pleased to tell you that it is the exact same motivation I have that drives me to post.

 

[Sulicius]

An increase in options will cause power creep even if those options are no stronger than before. The original set is a distribution, with some a bit below average, some a bit above. The new options are the same. But their addition means instead of 2 or 3 things being noticeabley strong, you get 4 or 5. Then 6 or 7.

Lots and lots of player options and a tightly balanced system work against each other.

Yes, but what does this have to do with the revision? I understand this. If anything, I see a lot of people running it without the other supplements.

Are we now against adding player options?

I just limit options based on the campaign setting, but I really don't get where we are going with this discussion.

 

[Sulicius]

Oh it's an issue, whether you understand it or not

Power Creep - TV Tropes

Power creep is the process in multi-player games (Collectible Card Games, Tabletop Games, Video Games, etc.) in which newly-added content (such as character abilities or equipment) can be played alongside old content, but the new content is far …

tvtropes.org

And I just posted a thread from EnWorld with people complaining about D&D 2024's encounter design system. So you're purposely closing your eyes to something that is real, whether you want to admit it or not.

Get a Bookscan subscription and the truth about what's selling the best is clear

How deep do you want to dig your grave? The encounter building thread was made BEFORE the release of the 2024 DMG. And then you pretend like I am the fool? I don't like how smug you are about this either, and I hope you learn some humility.

 

[The Firebird]

Yes, but what does this have to do with the revision? I understand this. If anything, I see a lot of people running it without the other supplements.

It is about power creep in the new revision. I'm just making the point that more player options and power creep are inseparable.

Are we now against adding player options?

For me, yes.

I just limit options based on the campaign setting, but I really don't get where we are going with this discussion.

I think this is wise. If every DM did this well I would be happy to get more player options. I run AL games where all options are by default on the table. So an increase in options does lead to power creep.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It is about power creep in the new revision. I'm just making the point that more player options and power creep are inseparable.

For me, yes.

I think this is wise. If every DM did this well I would be happy to get more player options. I run AL games where all options are by default on the table. So an increase in options does lead to power creep.

I didn't realize you were an AL GM. I'm sorry, that's a tough gig I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole attached to a giant rat covered in bells.

 

[Sulicius]

It is about power creep in the new revision. I'm just making the point that more player options and power creep are inseparable.

For me, yes.

I think this is wise. If every DM did this well I would be happy to get more player options. I run AL games where all options are by default on the table. So an increase in options does lead to power creep.

I get it. It's just that so far, my experience is that PC's have gotten a bit stronger at level 1, but overall the balance between classes and subclasses is a LOT better. Some of the spiky bits have been filed off, like Stunning Strike and Divine Smite spam.

The big improvement is that the monsters have become stronger, the encounter XP budgets have gone up and the XP multiplier for running multiple monsters has been removed. So you can now field 8 lions against 4 lvl3 PC's, and it's a solid fight.

So at this point there is more balance than ever, which means that I don't feel power creep. Sure a PC might want to pick an older subclass that might not be as strong, but we've always had stronger and weaker subclasses.

I am glad I don't have to stick to someone else's decision about the rules, other than what me and my players enjoy. I never hear positive things about AL.

 

[mamba]

It's presently a large chunk, but I wouldn't say 100% of the profits. It's a lot though, and very significant.

notice the word 'basically'

Also, though D&D is important to Hasbro and WotC, I wouldn't say it's a bigger part of the pie than MtG.

it clearly is not, I never claimed it was

 

[TheSword]

Both are considered valuable assets in their industries, so not as trivial as you make them out to be. But I get it

Has this thread been forgotten? Indications generally seemed pretty rosy. Does it look like a dying/failing game?

We should get the Q2 investor report next week.

H

D&D 5E (2014) Thread 'According to the Hasbro Q1 earning call D&D sales are up substantially.'

Apr 24, 2025

According to the Hasbro Q1 earning call D&D revenue are up substantially.

Okay so WotC as a whole is up 46%, magic the Gathering is up 45%, so the bulk of that MtG, but the fact that no new digital game releases have occurred means that to not have D&D revenue pulling down WotC's as a whole's numbers lower then MtGs, means that D&D sales & revenue had to have had a substantial increase.

This undermines rumours that D&D is in trouble.

Hasbro Reports First Quarter 2025 Financial Results

• Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming Segment
  • Revenue increased 46% behind...

• Henadic Theologian
• Replies: 72
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

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