D&D General Did 5e 2024 Not meet the economic goals set, and if not, why not?


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I was reminded of this article on ICV pointing out the many errors in the claims made by just one of those people ‘studying the numbers’. Bookscan data isn’t reliable. It doesn’t include all the hobby store sales if any, online retailers or VTT/digital sales.

My favorite quote from the article…

“[…] a large segment of the RPG players are predisposed to distrust WotC already. So, believing WotC would deliberately overstate sales plays into that storyline and would attract attention, which it did (after all, I just wrote a column on it).”

I think this thread is more of the same. As is the YouTube video that started it, by someone who’s opening comments mention that he plays Pathfinder 2 🙈

Bookscan is just numbers and ICv2 just reports on those numbers. Can't refute numbers without alternative numbers - it isn't enough to just say "Trust me, Bro" :ROFLMAO:

That's what your "article" is doing.
 

It’s all relative though right? If the monsters also creep what’s the problem?
The problem is obvious... Look at the specifics. Wotc was talking up PC power creep. It doesn't matter if monsters are strong enough to provide an appropriate challenge to PCs not built under a deliberate extreme unoptimized baseline now when the goal is deliberate PC power creep as a sellable feature
 

Bookscan is just numbers and ICv2 just reports on those numbers. Can't refute numbers without alternative numbers - it isn't enough to just say "Trust me, Bro" :ROFLMAO:

That's what your "article" is doing.
Eh. The article is from ICv2 which you just said was a credible source? Or is it only the articles there that you agree with that are credible sources.

Bookscan is a sliver of a slice of the numbers. Great to discuss, and a good starting point, but they have to be put in context.
 

Eh. The article is from ICv2 which you just said was a credible source? Or is it only the articles there that you agree with that are credible sources.

Bookscan is a sliver of a slice of the numbers. Great to discuss, and a good starting point, but they have to be put in context.
Both are considered valuable assets in their industries, so not as trivial as you make them out to be. But I get it (y)
 

Does D&D need to be a tightly balanced system? Is there no room for people who value different things from the game?

The more I play games that don’t attempt to be balanced, the more I realize it has little bearing on how much fun the game is.
I don't care for balanced gameplay at all. I like systems that break balance much more than 5e does.

But there are different types of balance, right? You can have a system that assumes the monsters are generally balanced with the PCs abilities, or one that doesn't. You can have classes that generally can all contribute in similar ways at similar times, or ones that don't--where class A is super useful in a combat and class B is not.

The assumptions of 5e typically have 1) monsters encountered in an AP are generally the same level as the PCs, and 2) all classes contribute to all (or most) combats.

The power creep in 5e isn't about having classes that differ in interesting ways, or a world that diverges from the PCs abilities. It isn't "two clerics play very differently and the the party with cleric A can trivialize some encounters by playing to their strengths" (fun). Its more "cleric A is strictly better than cleric B at everything". And that isn't fun.
 


Isn't the OP premise of this thread that Hasbro stock prices are driven by the success or failure of D&D? Is that valid?

I know D&D is significant, but is it really the driver? WotC, which composes D&D and MTG and other brands is like 20% of Hasbro revenue in 2021 according to Google AI. But D&D is what, half? of WotC. So somewhere around 10%.

So if that's all true, sure D&D 2024 success if important, but it's only going to be one of many factors impacting Hasbro stock performance.
 

Isn't the OP premise of this thread that Hasbro stock prices are driven by the success or failure of D&D? Is that valid?

I know D&D is significant, but is it really the driver? WotC, which composes D&D and MTG and other brands is like 20% of Hasbro revenue in 2021 according to Google AI. But D&D is what, half? of WotC. So somewhere around 10%.

So if that's all true, sure D&D 2024 success if important, but it's only going to be one of many factors impacting Hasbro stock performance.
D&D is not even half of WoTC, not sure what it really is currently, it has risen in contribution in recent years but I have no idea how much that is BG3 as distinct from D&D proper.
 

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