D&D General Did 5e 2024 Not meet the economic goals set, and if not, why not?

[tetrasodium]

SR every 2 fights is about right. 2 covers 6 encounters the last one being a LR.

Scale up the level and watch the disaster that occurs into &: through sayy tier 3 when that warlock gets to push the fifth level button over and over and over again while the monk generally has more ki than they could use on that cycle. They didn't fix the design problem and did nothing about the rest design. It's so much more of an issue than the 150$ price tag as earlier discussion showed with someone leaping from the Internet to assert that it wasn't even possible for too many short rests to be an issue because of restrictions on long rests and the fact that people who feel they deserve more SR breaks than their gm/group are willing to give them are vocal enough that it's unreasonable to think they might ever be expecting too many.

 

[Valetudo]

Rules wise, I only have minor complaints. The removal of core races bothers me, but we are already getting the half elf back(for only 30 extra dollars, how nice). There is power creep but it's built into the core product. I was disappointed with the MM, I thought they should have added a more robust resist/vulnerable system instead of adding more hp and iniative boost to monsters.

 

[Valetudo]

Tier 3 and beyond has been broken in every version of dnd. 5mwds are not a real problem of the rules. Warlocks and monks are great in 2024, best versions ever.tetrasodium, you have a group problem not a system problem.

 

[Theory of Games]

The thing is, there isn't that much power creep. In my experience, the difference is the biggest at level 1 because of origin feats and weapon masteries, but they even out over the levels. My lvl 12 bard didn't feel any different after transitioning to 2024 D&D, except that she was actually weaker than before.

Except 5e started with:

• less than ten races and now it's over forty
• less than fifteen backgrounds and now it's over fifty
• less than fifteen classes and now it's over one hundred (with the subclasses)
• less than fifty feats and now it's over one hundred

Power-creep involves everything that comprises a character in terms of capability.

The player tools that bothered me the most have actually been nerfed: smites, stunning strike, counterspell. Not all abilities that bother me have seen changes, but enough to make running combat more fun for me.

The biggest improvement IMO is the new encounter building math and the powered up and streamlined monsters. Nothing was worse than struggling running a monster with 25 spells at the table, and then having a pushover encounter anyway. The new stuff is far better balanced, though not perfect. Just this has saved me so much time and worry that I find the revision worth it. Even 150 bucks.

The new encounter-building math? As in Challenge Rating? I'm still seeing GMs complain about how broken it is.

D&D 5E (2014) Thread 'Level = Challenge Rating'

Apr 28, 2024

I hope 5e 2024 eliminates the esoteric and often imbalanced terminology of monster "Challenge" rating. Instead, refer to "levels", such as a "level 13 Red Dragon", or whatever.

In any case, there exists a direct link between Level and Challenge, via the "Proficiency" bonus. Notice how the monster "challenge" in the Monster Manual and again in Mordenkainen Presents corresponds exactly to a player character "level".


Proficiency: Level = Challenge

+2: Level 0 (Background) = Challenges 1/8, 1/4, 1/2

+2: Levels 1 thru 4 = Challenges 1 thru 4
+3: Levels 5 thru 8 =...

• Yaarel
• Replies: 113
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

• 

And please understand we're not looking for "perfect" - we just want something that works. This is the only area where WotC has been consistent: leaving GMs without the necessary tools to run the system and 5e's co-designer Mike Mearls said the very same thing.

Which explains why D&D isn't doing as well as anticipated.

 

[TheSword]

Scale up the level and watch the disaster that occurs into &: through sayy tier 3 when that warlock gets to push the fifth level button over and over and over again while the monk generally has more ki than they could use on that cycle. They didn't fix the design problem and did nothing about the rest design. It's so much more of an issue than the 150$ price tag as earlier discussion showed with someone leaping from the Internet to assert that it wasn't even possible for too many short rests to be an issue because of restrictions on long rests and the fact that people who feel they deserve more SR breaks than their gm/group are willing to give them are vocal enough that it's unreasonable to think they might ever be expecting too many.

I’m struggling to see what the problem is with a warlock casting 2 spells per combat repeatedly?

I’m really struggling to see the problem with monks getting to use their ki every round?

These two classes don’t get low on spells or ki, that’s it. They’re balanced against other classes with that in mind aren’t they?

 

[bedir than]

Which explains why D&D isn't doing as well as anticipated

There remains no evidence of this

 

[tetrasodium]

I’m struggling to see what the problem is with a warlock casting 2 spells per combat repeatedly?

https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/2190885-warlock

You did not look at what happens in tier3 before asking what is the problem in tier 3 where they have 3 5th level slots per rest plus all of their ADEU abilities .

I’m really struggling to see the problem with monks getting to use their ki every round?

Also you literally quoted a link to Crawford talking about hitting the 5th level button again and again and again being a problem wotc acknowledges while citing the spell slot count of a lower level warlock.

These two classes don’t get low on spells or ki, that’s it. They’re balanced against other classes with that in mind aren’t they?

See the Crawford clip you skipped, I even quoted him.

 

[TheSword]

One thing that might doom it. Once the suger rush wears off the amount of piwercreep makes DMs job harder.

If people don't want to run it you're in trouble. Players I suspect like the power creep.

5E appeal originally was comparatively simple.

The downgrade in divine smite and a few key spells more than balances out monks and martial’s getting some sugar. It feels like the difference in difficulty is negligable.

Original feats are really very mild in balance terms.

 

[TheSword]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/2190885-warlock

You did not look at what happens in tier3 before asking what is the problem in tier 3 where they have 3 5th level slots per rest plus all of their ADEU abilities .

Also you literally quoted a link to Crawford talking about hitting the 5th level button again and again and again being a problem wotc acknowledges while citing the spell slot count of a lower level warlock.

See the Crawford clip you skipped, I even quoted him.

I don’t recall the Jem quote, can you point me to it?

I think a warlocks 3 spells per combat don’t last very long. Particularly where disproportionately useful low level spells take up the same slot as that 5th level spell. Counterspell, shield etc. 2 or
Even 3 short rests doesn’t make them substantially better than wizard or cleric.

 

[tetrasodium]

I don’t recall the Jem quote, can you point me to it?

I think a warlocks 3 spells per combat don’t last very long. Particularly where disproportionately useful low level spells take up the same slot as that 5th level spell. Counterspell, shield etc. 2 or
Even 3 short rests doesn’t make them substantially better than wizard or cleric.

Do you often see players deploying counter spell or shield as part of an a Nova? I admittedly can't see how either would contribute to a Nova loop powered 5mwd simply because they are not needed when a significant fraction of the players at a table are doing similar in service to the 5mwd you don't even acknowledge as something that could potentially be fed by unreasonable rest expectations from SR classes.